Cheap or not: spears, shield pokers, and stun lockers? Discuss.

#1Bowdownbe4me1Posted 1/5/2013 1:55:44 PM
Here's a confession: *I* was a spear user and stun locker in my early days of pvp (spear main-hand, Zwei backup main-hand). In those days I had an amazing win-loss ratio, and I thought that I was actually good at the game. Hell, people even complimented me on my use of the spear. I would ninja flip and punish, and poke my way to victory. And if I failed at keeping my distance, I would try to stun-lock them to death. Frankly, I am ashamed of this past. After a while it started to set in that it could just be that spears and stun-locks are overpowered. I never *had* to get in close to the enemy, so any threat they could pose (pyro, bs, bleed, magic, faith, etc) really didn't worry me. And if they were close to getting a hit I could always poke while shielding. All in all, I feel that a sense of morality has guided me away from these play-styles and into something a little less overpowered. (This is all just opinion). And here's where this post comes in:

I want to raise this issue to the community in order to see where people stand on these things. Do you think that spears, shield poking and stun-locking cheap? By spears I mean people who actually know how to dodge and punish attempts at getting close (I've never once seen a way to handle this without trading damage). By shield pokers I mean people who hide behind a shield and poke with a rapier or spear (again, the only option seems to be to trade). And stun lockers are fairly obvious (if and when they hit you once, they will R1 until you either break free or die).

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BEFORE YOU RESPOND, PLEASE READ:

I am not posting this because I'm butt-hurt, but rather because I've noticed more and more that there are few ways to counter these, and if/when they show up in a fight club/honor duel they pretty much always take the cake if the wielder is worth their salt. This is going to sound harsh, but remember that this is *my* opinion (I welcome your own): frankly, it feels dirty to me that skilled players will lose to these types more often than not (and I'm not saying that spear users don't have skill, but rather that a good spear user can beat a great katana user with relative ease).

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Lastly: I really do want to hear your opinions, but I also want to remind you that I am raising a question mostly about honor duels and fight clubs. The argument: "Screw honor, I'm a dickwraith" is irrelevant.
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P.S. discussion is a two way street; while I welcome your arguments for or against these tactics, that doesn't mean everyone will agree. You may have to elaborate on and/or defend your argument.
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GT: Bowdownbe4me
#2SorrowOfAcheronPosted 1/5/2013 2:02:08 PM
I personally have never PvP'd, but using a spear is okay, in my opinion.

You're just using one of the many types of weapons in the game; people should estimate range of attacks etc
And I don't really find a problem with stun-locking with a spear either, since when you stun someone, it's basically to give you time to act, which in PvP'ing, means attacking some more.

But all that is my opinion.
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GamerTag: SorrowOfAcheron, Alt. GT: RageOfFenrisulf
Pawn: Eurynome, Lvl. 200 Sorcerer
#3anand_ak89Posted 1/5/2013 2:07:26 PM
Dude you are good spear user. I even took some of your advice. I know how you feel sometimes but I try to use other weapons to win aswell. So basically what I am saying is as long as you don't end up a one trick pony its fine.

Both spears and stunlock isn't cheap at all. Spears trade off easily damage wise. Stunlocking weapons are slow. So they have their own trade off like every other weapon type. There is no best weapon in this game and variety is what makes me come back to it.
#4Krauser86Posted 1/5/2013 2:08:18 PM
In my opinion, spears, shield pokers and stun locking are far too safe, not cheap. I could just as easily put on DWGR, the Leo Ring and a Greatshield and go to town with a Pike or Silver Knight Spear, but I choose not to.

If a spear user is smart, they are in a very advantageous position. I was fighting the forest for a few 1v1s a while back and didn't lose a single fight whilst two-handing the Silver Knight Spear. Most of the time I was facing Katana users, and the SKS can hit them before they are even in range to hit me > roll back/dodge and rinse and repeat. That, really, is how simple and effective it is to use a spear.

If someone is aggressive with a spear they I have no qualms with them. I just understand that in the time it took me to become good with Rapiers/ Katanas/ Greatswords / etc, was achieved almost instantly with spears, simply because I realised that distance when using a spear is a tactic that can not be countered by anything else.

Only time I get aggravated by a spear user is when they do nothing but turtle, and when that happens I usually just repeatedly Roll BS them. Even though to some, Roll BS is a skill, It's not how I like to fight. But I have little patience when fighting on Dark Souls.
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#5Dex_PyromaniacPosted 1/5/2013 2:10:49 PM
'Skilled players' who lose to people who rely on stunlocking are not skilled players, same idea with shield pokers. Spears, while pretty much top tier if used well, are still not unbeatable and cheap by any means.

Its better to accept the fact that someone still has ways to go than to live in denial and call others 'cheap' and 'unskilled' even though they are obviously doing something right since you know, its them winning.
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#6CoogansbudPosted 1/5/2013 2:13:01 PM
I like many different weapons. Spears are nice, and I want them and pole-arms in more games. Reach is the main benefit of them I guess--tough poop if you don't like it. And yeah you can't parry them unless you're close enough, and closing that distance can be pretty hard.

Thrust attacks plus leo ring can destroy. It's all good imo.
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GT: Coogansbud
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#7TheTrillTexanPosted 1/5/2013 2:18:01 PM
SorrowOfAcheron posted...
I personally have never PvP'd, but using a spear is okay, in my opinion.

You're just using one of the many types of weapons in the game; people should estimate range of attacks etc
And I don't really find a problem with stun-locking with a spear either, since when you stun someone, it's basically to give you time to act, which in PvP'ing, means attacking some more.

But all that is my opinion.


No offense butI dont understand why you would offer an uninformed/inexperienced opinion on something you supposedly have zero experience with.


To offer mine however, I wouldnt consider them cheap but they are definitely much easier to use. Stunlocking is lame but big weapons kind of need it, I do get tired of hitting some guy 7 times without a scratch then he hits me once and its over if I cant toggle break it though, especially when they act like they did something skillfull.


Spears and pokers are easy. Black flame. Only the Dragon Slayer ever gives me problem. I am interested in using it on the Dex/Fai I made the other day to see what its like. It is incredibly easy to poke rather than slash in my experience.


Not cheap but take less skill. Also please quit doing what is it when I flawlessly pick your meatslab vitgouge poise legend to pieces for 5 minutes and you just get 1 stunlock and win near the end thanks.
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GT:The Trill Texan
Try jumping.
#8the_curatorPosted 1/5/2013 2:24:15 PM
I don't mind them when used properly (not stunlock 2 hand R1 spammers with dragonslayer shield). What I hate though is that many times, the only way to counter spears is to roll through the pokes and roll BS, which I hate doing. I have been practicing shooting spear users with a bow (which does not work on a good spear user) or parrying spears (we all know how that usually ends up) but I have yet to find a honorable way to punish them, especially with their shields up. It does not help that most of my pvp builds are poiseless.
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#9SorrowOfAcheronPosted 1/5/2013 2:28:55 PM
TheTrillTexan posted...
SorrowOfAcheron posted...
I personally have never PvP'd, but using a spear is okay, in my opinion.

You're just using one of the many types of weapons in the game; people should estimate range of attacks etc
And I don't really find a problem with stun-locking with a spear either, since when you stun someone, it's basically to give you time to act, which in PvP'ing, means attacking some more.

But all that is my opinion.


No offense butI dont understand why you would offer an uninformed/inexperienced opinion on something you supposedly have zero experience with.


To offer mine however, I wouldnt consider them cheap but they are definitely much easier to use. Stunlocking is lame but big weapons kind of need it, I do get tired of hitting some guy 7 times without a scratch then he hits me once and its over if I cant toggle break it though, especially when they act like they did something skillfull.


Spears and pokers are easy. Black flame. Only the Dragon Slayer ever gives me problem. I am interested in using it on the Dex/Fai I made the other day to see what its like. It is incredibly easy to poke rather than slash in my experience.


Not cheap but take less skill. Also please quit doing what is it when I flawlessly pick your meatslab vitgouge poise legend to pieces for 5 minutes and you just get 1 stunlock and win near the end thanks.


I never had PvP'd, but I'm pretty sure I know what being stun-locked is. And I don't see how using a spear on an online player is different from using a spear on an enemy, in-game.
The player who gets hit by a spear repeatedly will *probably* (not saying everyone will be) be pissed; they get hit because they misjudge the reach of the spear, or some other mistake.
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GamerTag: SorrowOfAcheron, Alt. GT: RageOfFenrisulf
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#10IRON-SWANPosted 1/5/2013 2:29:29 PM
Screw honor I'm a dickwraith XD but seriously not cheap , as with everything else there is a counter to spears and stunlocking weapons . If I screw up with my zwei there's a good chance it'll be punished but if theys screw up then my stunlock is punishing them . People can see what your using and should know how to fight against it . Its their fault if they slip up and lose
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