Community Weapon Tier List

#11localizedfreedo(Topic Creator)Posted 1/9/2013 2:17:26 AM
TheTrillTexan posted...
Ive been running around with DSS and Talisman in the other hand, you poke people aggressively and when they try to get close for a BS WoG them and poke more. Its ridiculous, even people who I could tell knew how to dodge WoG easily get nailed by it as long as you space it out with pokes so they start to forget. Everyone turtles and those who dont are either getting punished by pokes or bs fishing and getting WoG poked.


I love pairing WoG with my claymore. I get them used to my dashing dead angles and WR2HR1, then pull out the talisman, roll at them / dash at them and WoG their parry attempt, then combo out with the Clay.
#12Art Of DrowningPosted 1/9/2013 2:20:20 AM
TheTrillTexan posted...
Ya Im not some megapro but Ive spent at least 100 hours in PvP and never seen one.


Why does no one use it then? I dont even see it mentioned in discussions except jokingly.


Ive also been destroying people all day with the DSS, people can not handle it.


I use to see it quite a bit. It was mostly used by Int builds of course. Usually those who want a safer weapon for PvP and were not happy with the MLGS. I tried both but decided that MLBH simply does not have a place in my Fashion Souls game. Not sure why the decline in people using it now. I remember seeing quite a bit of people whip out their horns in the Kiln. :P
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#13SethrothaurionPosted 1/9/2013 2:29:12 AM(edited)
Can you explain the logic behind MLBH? I cannot see how it is considered Top Tier, let alone above MLGS.

Chaos Blade Vs. Uchi/Iaito is more based on the build you're using than the weapons themselves.

What is the list based on, though? There is more to tier lists than the actual weapons, sometimes. For example, the Artorias Greatswords might not be bad weapons, but the stat investment they require makes the mostly useless for standard PvP. A weapon such as, say, the Murakumo might fall under this category as well.
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#14Art Of DrowningPosted 1/9/2013 2:33:11 AM
anand_ak89 posted...
The only reason spears aren't S is because they seem like a one trick pony to me.


Eh? Not sure what you mean by this... I'm going to guess you simply mean poke punish, particularly with flip in flip out attacks. But that is more of a personal choice. The spear has a huge range and this is its primary advantage. That however doesn't mean it is a one trick pony to me. I catch enough people with rolling R1s, Kick->R1s etc to know a few more tricks from my spears. I'd also note, that pushing it down because it is a one trick pony wouldn't make sense if the trick is as ridiculously effective as it is in this case. Further more, the one trick pony shouldn't mean anything since you can easily have a backup weapon purely for variation, however, the initial weapon is still just as effective without said weapon and wouldn't rely on it. Or, for instance the primary weapon would even benefit from a backup. TC mentioned tricking people with talisman WoTG->Clay swings, this is a great example. Do we say the fact that the clay can combo from Wrath doesn't count because wrath isn't part of the clay? No, that would be silly.
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"A storm is brewing here right by my side
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#15localizedfreedo(Topic Creator)Posted 1/9/2013 2:34:58 AM
Sethrothaurion posted...
Can you explain the logic behind MLBH? I cannot see how it is considered Top Tier, let alone above MLGS.

Chaos Blade Vs. Uchi/Iaito is more based on the build you're using than the weapons themselves.

What is the list based on, though? There is more to tier lists than the actual weapons, sometimes. For example, the Artorias Greatswords might not be bad weapons, but the stat investment they require makes the mostly useless for standard PvP. A weapon such as, say, the Murakumo might fall under this category as well.


The moonlight butterfly horn has (iirc) the farthest reaching 2HR1 in the game. You should never have to even get hit while using it, not to mention since the damage is pure magic it almost always out damages its other spear cousins.

The context of the list is tiered for SL100/125 PVP.
#16Art Of DrowningPosted 1/9/2013 2:48:42 AM
Sethrothaurion posted...
Can you explain the logic behind MLBH? I cannot see how it is considered Top Tier, let alone above MLGS.


I wouldn't consider it top tier, though not too far below. One of its benefits is that it doesn't do split damage, that is, it is purely magic damage. Many shields are useless against it, while some shields are... fair. However, this "benefit" can also be a disadvantage since GMB is a hard counter to it. Further more armors with high magic resist would also make this thing less effective. On the other hand, those who use the Crown of Dusk would be punished when hit. You get the usual safety of the spear (reach, speed and lolblock poke). At the end of the day, there are better spears in my opinion but this one has seriously low stat requirements, especially for sorcies.

MLGS is very can stunlock. It's range attack is ok for collecting running people but for the most part it is pretty easy to dodge and you have limited uses of it based on the sword's durability. One of the mistakes a lot of newer people make in pvp is that they expect sorcerers to be vulnerable at close quarters. This thing will challenge that notion and if you are reckless, the MLGS will collect you up for surprising amounts of damage. The lure of this weapon has never been its R2s. I'm a sorcerer, I have soul spears for my run aways.
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"A storm is brewing here right by my side
I've tried all sorts of disguises"
#17AngryOldFeralPosted 1/9/2013 2:51:25 AM
localizedfreedo posted...
Sethrothaurion posted...
Can you explain the logic behind MLBH? I cannot see how it is considered Top Tier, let alone above MLGS.

Chaos Blade Vs. Uchi/Iaito is more based on the build you're using than the weapons themselves.

What is the list based on, though? There is more to tier lists than the actual weapons, sometimes. For example, the Artorias Greatswords might not be bad weapons, but the stat investment they require makes the mostly useless for standard PvP. A weapon such as, say, the Murakumo might fall under this category as well.


The moonlight butterfly horn has (iirc) the farthest reaching 2HR1 in the game. You should never have to even get hit while using it, not to mention since the damage is pure magic it almost always out damages its other spear cousins.

The context of the list is tiered for SL100/125 PVP.


What about the Demon Spear, then? Comparable reach, stat-scaling, built-in lightning modifier and its two-hand attack sends people flying.
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#18SethrothaurionPosted 1/9/2013 2:55:00 AM
localizedfreedo posted...
The moonlight butterfly horn has (iirc) the farthest reaching 2HR1 in the game. You should never have to even get hit while using it, not to mention since the damage is pure magic it almost always out damages its other spear cousins.

The context of the list is tiered for SL100/125 PVP.


I think I have to disagree on the MLBH. It's damage output, as well as being unbuffable, just isn't high enough to warrant it's place on the list. It has nowhere near the damage capability of the MLGS, but also has lower damage than a +15 Pike. A Pike is also buffable.

But the context of the Tier List is also very important, it's not just a case of what SL you are, there are a lot of factors. Are we to assume Spear Users are using a shield? Are we working with Buffs? What about the concept of both MLGS and MLBH being completely shut down by GMB? The point is, is the list being based off of the weapons in an assumed completely even playing field, or is this taking into account, as I mentioned before, high stat requirements, an easy counter, or being outclassed by another weapon?

Put simply, is it a weapon's pure potential, or is this a weapon's actual value for PvP? Because things can look good on paper, but be redundant in an actual duel.
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#19localizedfreedo(Topic Creator)Posted 1/9/2013 3:04:39 AM
Art Of Drowning posted...
Sethrothaurion posted...
Can you explain the logic behind MLBH? I cannot see how it is considered Top Tier, let alone above MLGS.


I wouldn't consider it top tier, though not too far below. One of its benefits is that it doesn't do split damage, that is, it is purely magic damage. Many shields are useless against it, while some shields are... fair. However, this "benefit" can also be a disadvantage since GMB is a hard counter to it. Further more armors with high magic resist would also make this thing less effective. On the other hand, those who use the Crown of Dusk would be punished when hit. You get the usual safety of the spear (reach, speed and lolblock poke). At the end of the day, there are better spears in my opinion but this one has seriously low stat requirements, especially for sorcies.

MLGS is very can stunlock. It's range attack is ok for collecting running people but for the most part it is pretty easy to dodge and you have limited uses of it based on the sword's durability. One of the mistakes a lot of newer people make in pvp is that they expect sorcerers to be vulnerable at close quarters. This thing will challenge that notion and if you are reckless, the MLGS will collect you up for surprising amounts of damage. The lure of this weapon has never been its R2s. I'm a sorcerer, I have soul spears for my run aways.


Who uses the R2's on the MLGS as an actual projectile? I only ever use them to blow people's feet up and then keep firing them on their standup to keep them grounded.

@other guy- I laid out my rules. Any additional criteria is up to you. If you wanna use counters as part of your criteria, do so.

@ second other guy- the best two spears are the Silver Knight Spear and the Moonlight Butterfly Horn. They're just simply the best.
#20SethrothaurionPosted 1/9/2013 3:09:33 AM
localizedfreedo posted...
@other guy- I laid out my rules. Any additional criteria is up to you. If you wanna use counters as part of your criteria, do so.


That's a cop-out answer and a half.
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