I hate magic users.

#191GamingSoHardPosted 1/31/2013 2:03:39 PM
ChaoticKnuckles posted...
Despite all of the hostility going back and forth in this thread, it looks to me like people are missing freedo's point. The point is that NOTHING that is programmed into the game and is available to both players is "cheap". If you want an "honest fight", coordinate with whoever you want to duel beforehand, agree on some rules and go from there. Expecting a random to adhere to some message board code of conduct is ridiculous.

If I invade someone and bow to them and they proceed to get in a free hit while I'm bowing is it cheap? No it isn't. No one forced me to bow to that person. I chose to do so and that was my consequence. The same applies to toggle escape or stunlocking, or Divine Blessings. Don't want to use them? Fine that's your prerogative but other players aren't cheap for making them a part of their tactics. All that stuff is available to you as well, if you choose not to use it you're restricting yourself for no good reason.


How is toggle escaping available to both players? One guy is stunlocking and the other is toggle escaping.
#192localizedfreedoPosted 1/31/2013 2:05:57 PM

Toggle escaping and dead angles are in the same vein of features...how so? Yes they both deal with damage but dead angles deal with the angle where the shield isn't protecting you (right?) while toggle escaping allows you to essentially circumvent around other features (stunlock and poise). Dead angle attacks I will give you that is something that does take skill. Dead angle attacks and toggle escaping are completely different. If not then how are they in the same vein of features?


Because dead angles are something that isn't straightforward and is registered in game by features that you don't know of at a glance - ie ;

Dead angles take advantage of the way the game is coded, just like weapon swaps do. Weapon swaps take advantage of frame priority and invincibility, dead angles take advantage of the directional orientation programming they gave the shields. They're both exploitative, but fair.
---
GT: ii Messatsu ii
DIVINE CLAYMORE of the Dark Souls
#193localizedfreedoPosted 1/31/2013 2:07:35 PM
GamingSoHard posted...
ChaoticKnuckles posted...
Despite all of the hostility going back and forth in this thread, it looks to me like people are missing freedo's point. The point is that NOTHING that is programmed into the game and is available to both players is "cheap". If you want an "honest fight", coordinate with whoever you want to duel beforehand, agree on some rules and go from there. Expecting a random to adhere to some message board code of conduct is ridiculous.

If I invade someone and bow to them and they proceed to get in a free hit while I'm bowing is it cheap? No it isn't. No one forced me to bow to that person. I chose to do so and that was my consequence. The same applies to toggle escape or stunlocking, or Divine Blessings. Don't want to use them? Fine that's your prerogative but other players aren't cheap for making them a part of their tactics. All that stuff is available to you as well, if you choose not to use it you're restricting yourself for no good reason.


How is toggle escaping available to both players? One guy is stunlocking and the other is toggle escaping.


And when the other stunlocks guy 1 back, guy 1 can toggle out too. Derp a herpa
---
GT: ii Messatsu ii
DIVINE CLAYMORE of the Dark Souls
#194ChaoticKnucklesPosted 1/31/2013 2:10:11 PM
GamingSoHard posted...
ChaoticKnuckles posted...
Despite all of the hostility going back and forth in this thread, it looks to me like people are missing freedo's point. The point is that NOTHING that is programmed into the game and is available to both players is "cheap". If you want an "honest fight", coordinate with whoever you want to duel beforehand, agree on some rules and go from there. Expecting a random to adhere to some message board code of conduct is ridiculous.

If I invade someone and bow to them and they proceed to get in a free hit while I'm bowing is it cheap? No it isn't. No one forced me to bow to that person. I chose to do so and that was my consequence. The same applies to toggle escape or stunlocking, or Divine Blessings. Don't want to use them? Fine that's your prerogative but other players aren't cheap for making them a part of their tactics. All that stuff is available to you as well, if you choose not to use it you're restricting yourself for no good reason.


How is toggle escaping available to both players? One guy is stunlocking and the other is toggle escaping.


I never said available at the exact same time. If someone tries to stunlock you, you toggle escape. If you try to stunlock someone, they toggle escape. Both options are available to both players during the course of the fight.
---
I boosted some of my trophies. Please, judge me about it.
#195GamingSoHardPosted 1/31/2013 2:10:32 PM
localizedfreedo posted...
GamingSoHard posted...
ChaoticKnuckles posted...
Despite all of the hostility going back and forth in this thread, it looks to me like people are missing freedo's point. The point is that NOTHING that is programmed into the game and is available to both players is "cheap". If you want an "honest fight", coordinate with whoever you want to duel beforehand, agree on some rules and go from there. Expecting a random to adhere to some message board code of conduct is ridiculous.

If I invade someone and bow to them and they proceed to get in a free hit while I'm bowing is it cheap? No it isn't. No one forced me to bow to that person. I chose to do so and that was my consequence. The same applies to toggle escape or stunlocking, or Divine Blessings. Don't want to use them? Fine that's your prerogative but other players aren't cheap for making them a part of their tactics. All that stuff is available to you as well, if you choose not to use it you're restricting yourself for no good reason.


How is toggle escaping available to both players? One guy is stunlocking and the other is toggle escaping.


And when the other stunlocks guy 1 back, guy 1 can toggle out too. Derp a herpa


Except two people can drink a divine blessing at the same time you can't toggle escape at the same time. Learn to read. Derp derp.
#196localizedfreedoPosted 1/31/2013 2:11:33 PM
GamingSoHard posted...
localizedfreedo posted...
GamingSoHard posted...
ChaoticKnuckles posted...
Despite all of the hostility going back and forth in this thread, it looks to me like people are missing freedo's point. The point is that NOTHING that is programmed into the game and is available to both players is "cheap". If you want an "honest fight", coordinate with whoever you want to duel beforehand, agree on some rules and go from there. Expecting a random to adhere to some message board code of conduct is ridiculous.

If I invade someone and bow to them and they proceed to get in a free hit while I'm bowing is it cheap? No it isn't. No one forced me to bow to that person. I chose to do so and that was my consequence. The same applies to toggle escape or stunlocking, or Divine Blessings. Don't want to use them? Fine that's your prerogative but other players aren't cheap for making them a part of their tactics. All that stuff is available to you as well, if you choose not to use it you're restricting yourself for no good reason.


How is toggle escaping available to both players? One guy is stunlocking and the other is toggle escaping.


And when the other stunlocks guy 1 back, guy 1 can toggle out too. Derp a herpa


Except two people can drink a divine blessing at the same time you can't toggle escape at the same time. Learn to read. Derp derp.


wtf...
---
GT: ii Messatsu ii
DIVINE CLAYMORE of the Dark Souls
#197GamingSoHardPosted 1/31/2013 2:13:03 PM

The problem is the assumption that toggle escaping was programmed in on purpose. There is no way of knowing that with 100% certainty unless you know the programmers personally. Toggle escaping isn't a hard counter to stunlocking it's a straight up circumvention, poise is the counter to stunlocking. If you don't want to be stunned by any weapon that does X amount of damage then increase your poise either through armor or the wolf ring. If you know for sure that it was programmed in then please post the proof..



I can't know for certain, obviously, but all the little indicators lean heavily that way.


Exactly so stop pretending like you know your way is the only way. I could care less about all the "little indicators".
#198localizedfreedoPosted 1/31/2013 2:13:45 PM
GamingSoHard posted...

The problem is the assumption that toggle escaping was programmed in on purpose. There is no way of knowing that with 100% certainty unless you know the programmers personally. Toggle escaping isn't a hard counter to stunlocking it's a straight up circumvention, poise is the counter to stunlocking. If you don't want to be stunned by any weapon that does X amount of damage then increase your poise either through armor or the wolf ring. If you know for sure that it was programmed in then please post the proof..



I can't know for certain, obviously, but all the little indicators lean heavily that way.


Exactly so stop pretending like you know your way is the only way. I could care less about all the "little indicators".


I mean, I still can't stop laughing at your post about simultaneous weapon swaps.
---
GT: ii Messatsu ii
DIVINE CLAYMORE of the Dark Souls
#199GamingSoHardPosted 1/31/2013 2:18:53 PM
localizedfreedo posted...
GamingSoHard posted...

The problem is the assumption that toggle escaping was programmed in on purpose. There is no way of knowing that with 100% certainty unless you know the programmers personally. Toggle escaping isn't a hard counter to stunlocking it's a straight up circumvention, poise is the counter to stunlocking. If you don't want to be stunned by any weapon that does X amount of damage then increase your poise either through armor or the wolf ring. If you know for sure that it was programmed in then please post the proof..



I can't know for certain, obviously, but all the little indicators lean heavily that way.


Exactly so stop pretending like you know your way is the only way. I could care less about all the "little indicators".


I mean, I still can't stop laughing at your post about simultaneous weapon swaps.


What? The point is that simultaneous weapon swaps would be pointless, he didn't exactly make that clear in his post until he clarified it.

Don't try to change the subject and ignore the fact that your whole argument is based on an assumption you have no concrete evidence of.
#200AlpaI(Topic Creator)Posted 1/31/2013 2:20:39 PM
Lol.
---
I'm Always Right