The objectively best build?

#11nmbuserPosted 3/7/2013 10:14:27 AM
Dex_Pyromaniac posted...
I always used to say 'dwgr+spear+pyro', but ive been thinking. Most other builds are easy as hell to counter (we're speaking skilled players here of course), while this one, its kind of a nightmare for most builds. So technically speaking, wouldnt a BK shield+estoc build be the absolute best in the end? Since, you know, it beats the infamous 'dwgspearpyro' builds, and it wont have any trouble with beating other builds either given that the user is skilled enough.


That build is the only viable counter for spear users, definitely.

It's actually a fun playstyle for someone who is good. Stack max stamina regen, run 0 poise, and turtle to your hearts content
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#12Dex_Pyromaniac(Topic Creator)Posted 3/7/2013 11:49:55 AM
CentipedeDemon posted...
but it, in itself,could easily be destroyed by other builds.


Not really, I mean, what other build can you not counter with rollbsing, turtlepoking, or simply switching to pyro yourself? (if you have an estoc and a dex build might as well have some pyro)

Turtling from what ive seen is never done 'skillfully', but a good player can make it so. You dont NEED to turtle just because you have an estoc, but at least its an option in case of pyro or spear being thrown your way. You can still flip around and poke with it/use pyro if you so wish, but turtlepoking a great combustion for counter damage no less is a pretty easy way to deal with it if you ask me.
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#13moodyjm2Posted 3/7/2013 12:58:38 PM
Dex_Pyromaniac posted...
CentipedeDemon posted...
but it, in itself,could easily be destroyed by other builds.


Not really, I mean, what other build can you not counter with rollbsing, turtlepoking, or simply switching to pyro yourself? (if you have an estoc and a dex build might as well have some pyro)

Turtling from what ive seen is never done 'skillfully', but a good player can make it so. You dont NEED to turtle just because you have an estoc, but at least its an option in case of pyro or spear being thrown your way. You can still flip around and poke with it/use pyro if you so wish, but turtlepoking a great combustion for counter damage no less is a pretty easy way to deal with it if you ask me.


You can't turtle against Dark Bead with BK Shield. And rollbs'ing a Dark Bead user is not something that works well. It will hit you 99% of the time due to the arc and very small window for error. At that range it's usually a OHK.

Also, a very simple counter to turtling is HCSM. Merely flipping or dodging away as it tracks can be met with Dark Bead or even unlocked CSS. You simply cannot turtle against a strong Sorcerer which is why I've found so much success.
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#14nmbuserPosted 3/7/2013 1:47:32 PM
moodyjm2 posted...
Dex_Pyromaniac posted...
CentipedeDemon posted...
but it, in itself,could easily be destroyed by other builds.


Not really, I mean, what other build can you not counter with rollbsing, turtlepoking, or simply switching to pyro yourself? (if you have an estoc and a dex build might as well have some pyro)

Turtling from what ive seen is never done 'skillfully', but a good player can make it so. You dont NEED to turtle just because you have an estoc, but at least its an option in case of pyro or spear being thrown your way. You can still flip around and poke with it/use pyro if you so wish, but turtlepoking a great combustion for counter damage no less is a pretty easy way to deal with it if you ask me.


You can't turtle against Dark Bead with BK Shield. And rollbs'ing a Dark Bead user is not something that works well. It will hit you 99% of the time due to the arc and very small window for error. At that range it's usually a OHK.

Also, a very simple counter to turtling is HCSM. Merely flipping or dodging away as it tracks can be met with Dark Bead or even unlocked CSS. You simply cannot turtle against a strong Sorcerer which is why I've found so much success.


this is terribly wrong. barring a large amount of lag, roll bsing all sorcery in the game is quite easy. The stamina cost for rapier turtling wasn't actually nerfed, I believe, but it was for spears. This is the best way to play against someone who can't parry. You could go so far as to use the DWGR and leo ring, on a build with below average health, because you would have a very high chance of never being hit. childs mask and constant grass, obviously.
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#15CentipedeDemonPosted 3/7/2013 2:06:41 PM
Dex_Pyromaniac posted...
CentipedeDemon posted...
but it, in itself,could easily be destroyed by other builds.


Not really, I mean, what other build can you not counter with rollbsing, turtlepoking, or simply switching to pyro yourself? (if you have an estoc and a dex build might as well have some pyro)

Turtling from what ive seen is never done 'skillfully', but a good player can make it so. You dont NEED to turtle just because you have an estoc, but at least its an option in case of pyro or spear being thrown your way. You can still flip around and poke with it/use pyro if you so wish, but turtlepoking a great combustion for counter damage no less is a pretty easy way to deal with it if you ask me.


Dead angles, poison, toxic, shotel,baiting, roll bsing parries,magic, miracles. Just to name a few thngs that would murder a turtle build.

Inb4 poison wont kill. No, but it puts on pressure. The fact that its there puts on pressure. If u get poisoned, and your playing a good player, they won't allow you to moss up. And when you try, you WILL get hit.
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#16moodyjm2Posted 3/7/2013 2:51:14 PM
nmbuser posted...
moodyjm2 posted...
Dex_Pyromaniac posted...
CentipedeDemon posted...
but it, in itself,could easily be destroyed by other builds.


Not really, I mean, what other build can you not counter with rollbsing, turtlepoking, or simply switching to pyro yourself? (if you have an estoc and a dex build might as well have some pyro)

Turtling from what ive seen is never done 'skillfully', but a good player can make it so. You dont NEED to turtle just because you have an estoc, but at least its an option in case of pyro or spear being thrown your way. You can still flip around and poke with it/use pyro if you so wish, but turtlepoking a great combustion for counter damage no less is a pretty easy way to deal with it if you ask me.


You can't turtle against Dark Bead with BK Shield. And rollbs'ing a Dark Bead user is not something that works well. It will hit you 99% of the time due to the arc and very small window for error. At that range it's usually a OHK.

Also, a very simple counter to turtling is HCSM. Merely flipping or dodging away as it tracks can be met with Dark Bead or even unlocked CSS. You simply cannot turtle against a strong Sorcerer which is why I've found so much success.


this is terribly wrong. barring a large amount of lag, roll bsing all sorcery in the game is quite easy. The stamina cost for rapier turtling wasn't actually nerfed, I believe, but it was for spears. This is the best way to play against someone who can't parry. You could go so far as to use the DWGR and leo ring, on a build with below average health, because you would have a very high chance of never being hit. childs mask and constant grass, obviously.


#1. Turtling =/= roll bs, so what exactly are you saying? Turtling is playing defensively and attacking from behind a shield - and that is countered by Sorcery esp. on a low mag defensive shield like BK Shield. So now you're going to tell me you're turtling and then roll bs'ing? How exactly is that turtling then? Those are mutually exclusive actions. If you really think you're going from turtling to "roll bsing" Dark Bead, you really are clueless. Unless you're playing offensively and predicting it, you WILL get OHK'd. It's not lag, it's the shotgun spread.

#2. Enough with this roll bs crap. It's just a charade to sound Leet and impress people like Dex.

#3. How many times have you complained about spears? Guess what, Sorcerers have MLBH. So how does your strategy above work in that case?

#4. Stamina usage for all attacking behind shields was increased.

tl:dr You're wrong. Deal with it.
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#17Paragon049Posted 3/7/2013 3:24:42 PM(edited)
^

Actually, yeah, turtling does equal rollbs. Often when I'm playing people using slower weapons, I'll turtle around and try to bait them into attacking, and then rollbs them. Do you think turtling is literally just moving away from the other guy while blocking? rollbs is an offensive counter, like parries, and it's used as part of a defense.

Also, Dark Bead is extremely easy to rollbs unless there's tons of lag.
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#18KaeporoPosted 3/7/2013 4:55:43 PM
Intelligence/Faith hybrids generally wreck most builds that lack a solid counter to spells.

You certainly can't declare that you have a "perfect" build if you don't have a way to fend off someone that alternates between TWOP and Pursuers, with Dark Bead and Crystal Soul Spear as their primary form of attack.
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#19giantsirslayerPosted 3/7/2013 5:27:10 PM
Hey moody , I don't think these guys have ever been against a true ohk sorcerer, your build is pretty legit. Even though I havent seen it in awhile it was op my man ...and yea your guy would beat most builds to a pulp that's why I've only won against you by stun locking you lol
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#20moodyjm2Posted 3/7/2013 5:31:28 PM
giantsirslayer posted...
Hey moody , I don't think these guys have ever been against a true ohk sorcerer, your build is pretty legit. Even though I havent seen it in awhile it was op my man ...and yea your guy would beat most builds to a pulp that's why I've only won against you by stun locking you lol


Thanks man. It's hard not to get fired up when roll bs is constantly being thrown around and I have only had it done to me five times. I don't see it as a legit counter for most ppol in the Box
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