why are people in denial? (ending spoilers)

#1cruel_deathPosted 12/1/2012 12:43:31 PM
i remember years ago that people say in the ending that it is luke. why do people say this? obviously for those who played that side mission with the cheagles its asch and the side mission is pretty much mentioned in every ending topic. its asch, not luke.
#2SynyardPosted 12/1/2012 2:24:07 PM
Its not denial. The circumstances are very different.

Think of it this way.
The orignal Star had his fonons separated and went into his isofon and "took over," and the replica Star never died at all.

Luke's case could easily be the opposite. Asch's fonons never separated. He just died of blood loss.
Luke's fonons separated and were absorbed by Asch's body. If the one that was absorbed in the cheagle's case took over, why wouldn't it be that way in Luke's case?
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"It's not working. The banana is not melting."
-Masaokis
#3shadowhippo1986Posted 12/1/2012 10:40:27 PM
look at tc thinking he knows everything about the game...jeez let people think what they want
#4CatMutoPosted 12/2/2012 4:53:26 AM
Synyard posted...
Its not denial. The circumstances are very different.

Think of it this way.
The orignal Star had his fonons separated and went into his isofon and "took over," and the replica Star never died at all.


Yes, you start out very well, this is exactly what I've been saying since-

Luke's case could easily be the opposite. Asch's fonons never separated. He just died of blood loss.
Luke's fonons separated and were absorbed by Asch's body. If the one that was absorbed in the cheagle's case took over, why wouldn't it be that way in Luke's case?


No! No, it can't be! Because Luke isn't the first to die!
In that sidequest and situation, Star dies first. Then his replica does the absorb-thing and revives Star. Maybe if Luke had died of Fonon Separation first, before Asch died, then I suppose we could definitely say Mr Ending is Luke.

But that's just it.
The circumstances for the cheagles and Luke and Asch are completely different. They cannot be used for comparison. It's entirely different!

@TC: Ever heard of the fact that we're supposed to make up our own minds? Mr Ending is whoever the player wants him to be.

C-A
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#52wingedangelPosted 12/2/2012 9:10:59 AM
Here's the way I think of it.

1: The bangs belong to Luke. Doesn't matter if one's a replica of the other, Asch simply does not wear his bangs like that.
2. I may be wrong about this, but I don't remember Asch promising anyone but Luke to come back. Luke promised (almost) all of his friends.
3. Why would Asch give a f*** about Hod?
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#6SynyardPosted 12/2/2012 11:38:22 AM
CatMuto posted...
No! No, it can't be! Because Luke isn't the first to die!
In that sidequest and situation, Star dies first. Then his replica does the absorb-thing and revives Star. Maybe if Luke had died of Fonon Separation first, before Asch died, then I suppose we could definitely say Mr Ending is Luke.

But that's just it.
The circumstances for the cheagles and Luke and Asch are completely different. They cannot be used for comparison. It's entirely different!

@TC: Ever heard of the fact that we're supposed to make up our own minds? Mr Ending is whoever the player wants him to be.

C-A


The Star sidequest never said that dying is what mattered. Dying isn't the thing that matters. What matters is the fonon separation. Asch's fonons never separated. Asch may have died first, but his fonons were still there and he was still acting as Luke's isofon. Luke separated and he was absorbed by Asch. If we go by the Star sidequest, then Luke is the one "in control."

You can't just say "it's entirely different' because the game chose to show you the sidequest in the first place. Its naive to assume that the sidequest doesn't matter at all. The sidequest was literally put in the game for comparison. Yes, they're different situation, but they very comparable situations.
---
"It's not working. The banana is not melting."
-Masaokis
#7cruel_death(Topic Creator)Posted 12/2/2012 7:07:12 PM
2wingedangel posted...
Here's the way I think of it.

1: The bangs belong to Luke. Doesn't matter if one's a replica of the other, Asch simply does not wear his bangs like that.
2. I may be wrong about this, but I don't remember Asch promising anyone but Luke to come back. Luke promised (almost) all of his friends.
3. Why would Asch give a f*** about Hod?


I've read a lot of arguments that it is asch in lukes body. because luke's dominant hand is opposite of asch's and the sword at the end is whatever luke's dominant in. meaning that it is asch in luke's body.
Asch promised Natalias that he would come back.
perhaps residual emotions that luke had is transferred to asch. i mean that concept is in a lot of sci/fantasy stuff.
#8SynyardPosted 12/2/2012 8:38:45 PM(edited)
cruel_death posted...
I've read a lot of arguments that it is asch in lukes body. because luke's dominant hand is opposite of asch's and the sword at the end is whatever luke's dominant in. meaning that it is asch in luke's body.


Now here is someone in denial.
We saw Luke's body disintegrate. Luke's fonons separated. His body is gone.

How can Asch go into Luke's body if his body no longer exists?

cruel_death posted...
Asch promised Natalias that he would come back.


Natalia herself said that her promise to Asch was no longer valid because she was holding the promise to both Luke and Asch.
The promise Luke made to Tear was right after they defeated Van for the final time. You know, right before we see the ending cutscene.
The last thing Luke says before he "dies" is a promise, and the first thing he says when he comes back is "I made a promise."
It doesn't get much clearer than that.
Anyone suggesting that its Natalia's promise instead of Tear's is just ridiculously bull-headed.

cruel_death posted...
perhaps residual emotions that luke had is transferred to asch. i mean that concept is in a lot of sci/fantasy stuff.


Why would you go to something that isn't even in the game to explain an ending? You're really reaching hard for this.
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"It's not working. The banana is not melting."
-Masaokis
#9CatMutoPosted 12/3/2012 4:44:24 AM
2wingedangel posted...
1: The bangs belong to Luke. Doesn't matter if one's a replica of the other, Asch simply does not wear his bangs like that.


The bangs are slanted towards Mr Ending's left, but don't have the part in it the way Luke's or Asch's hair had.

2. I may be wrong about this, but I don't remember Asch promising anyone but Luke to come back. Luke promised (almost) all of his friends.


Completely ignoring the fact that Asch promised (somewhat hurry-forced, yes, but still) to Luke (and also indirectly to Natalia as Luke mentioned he and Natalia would be super sad if he died) that he'd survive.

3. Why would Asch give a f*** about Hod?


Really, does anybody care about Hod? Or even Replica-Hod?
Although Eldrant does look nice, maybe it's just a nice scenery to look at.

C-A
---
Cloud and Sephiroth - battling each other since '97 for your amusement
Give it a rest already!
#10cruel_death(Topic Creator)Posted 12/4/2012 4:04:42 PM
Synyard posted...
Now here is someone in denial.
We saw Luke's body disintegrate. Luke's fonons separated. His body is gone.

How can Asch go into Luke's body if his body no longer exists?



yeah but at the end it looked as though both of them started to separate in fonons since they both started to glow and were transparent at that point. and it's not denial if i'm providing evidence.

like stated above Asch promised natalia that he would survive and for some reason i want to believe that he wasn't dead just unconscious since there was no evidence that he was dead anyway other than that his arm twitched at the end.

theres a lot more to this argment if i can remember, its been years since i've played this game and there was pretty good evidence that it was asch and not luke at the end.