What exactly defines a hard carry

#1KOTRsssPosted 7/18/2012 5:31:40 PM
Clearly I am confused if I say clinkz is a hard carry and people are like "wat"
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#2Kevman510Posted 7/18/2012 5:38:56 PM
Needs extreme farm; becomes God himself.
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#3KOTRsss(Topic Creator)Posted 7/18/2012 5:47:35 PM
I dont see how that doesnt apply to clinkz.
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#4PirahnoPlantmanPosted 7/18/2012 6:22:46 PM(edited)
well because Clinkz is typically played as a hard ganker after he picks up an Orchid. Also because he's a pure glass cannon in every sense that his DPS is INSANESDLGKJDSGL:DKSJG but he dies to team focus so easily. He's got it a lot better than Sniper though when it comes to escape mechanics. Which honestly makes me wonder why more people play Sniper when you can dominate pub games so easily with Clinkz that it can become a joke when you solo backdoor towers.

http://stats.dota2.be/match/24819225
http://stats.dota2.be/match/20455258
http://stats.dota2.be/match/13793382

In my opinion what defines a carry is their ability to survive or avoid the brunt of most of the teamfight while being able to bring a massive amount of dps/burst damage or DoT to the teamfights. Ofcourse this comes at the price either having to be severely gold dependent or level dependant.

Not that I'm particularly good at carries. I usually just play support in pubs ; ~ ;
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#5Stanemac12Posted 7/18/2012 6:41:48 PM
Just because clinkz is amazing at being a hard ganker doesn't mean he can't be played as a hard carry. It might not be the most effective way to use him, but if my team is in need of someone to fill the carry role and I randomed clinkz I like to build him as such. Its not like he's completely horrible as a carry. Get a BKB and some items that provide some tankability, eat a creep before a team fight and go nuts. I've outcarried antimages and morphlings with clinkz before. Don't expect that at a high level of play, but as far as pubs are concerned he can get the job done fine.
#6KOTRsss(Topic Creator)Posted 7/18/2012 6:42:23 PM
Hrm. I suppose I've just seen clinkz carry REALLY hard in plenty of pubs.

I guess I dont see how he's different from drow. Is Drow not a hard carry?
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Gamefaqs has taught us that academic fields like literature don't exist because of teenagers that say "well that's just your opinion and I disagree."
#7rabies_nekoPosted 7/18/2012 6:49:42 PM
Kevman510 posted...
Needs extreme farm; becomes God himself.


This is what I think a hard carry is so TC is right. The definitions do seem to vary from person to person. They might think that a hard carry can only carry, that is they are ineffective at ganking, pushing etc.
#8reptilesrulePosted 7/18/2012 6:53:10 PM
From: Stanemac12 | #005
Just because clinkz is amazing at being a hard ganker doesn't mean he can't be played as a hard carry. It might not be the most effective way to use him, but if my team is in need of someone to fill the carry role and I randomed clinkz I like to build him as such. Its not like he's completely horrible as a carry. Get a BKB and some items that provide some tankability, eat a creep before a team fight and go nuts. I've outcarried antimages and morphlings with clinkz before. Don't expect that at a high level of play, but as far as pubs are concerned he can get the job done fine.


When the European teams run Clinkz, they seem to play him more as a farming carry than a ganking carry. Black usually goes for an early Soul Ring and uses Death Pact as a mini-Hand of Midas in his jungle until, and even after he gets his Orchid.

IMO, the whole thing about the carry spectrum is this:

A carry has offensive steroids/passives that make them capable of dealing sick deeps, even if they're as durable as a corn flake (ala Clinkz)

A hard carry has offensive steroids/passives and a respectable survivability steroid/passive (ala Spectre, Void, Medusa, even though the latter isn't in the game yet).
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#9mrfatcatmiedPosted 7/18/2012 7:05:12 PM
From: KOTRsss | #006
Hrm. I suppose I've just seen clinkz carry REALLY hard in plenty of pubs.

I guess I dont see how he's different from drow. Is Drow not a hard carry?

Drow is a carry that becomes more powerful early on than most because of her ulti giving a lot of bonus damage, thus allowing her to be played as a ganker as well because of her slow and silence but doesn't compare to a lot of late game carries.
and a hard carry requires a lot of farm to be successful and is the most useful late game (Faceless Void, Anti-Mage, Spectre), a carry requires farm but not as much as a hard carry to be successful (Clinkz, Brewmaster, Riki, Outworld Destroyer, Phantom Assassin, Choas Knight), and a semi-carry can be played as a somewhat supportive/ganking role but can easily become a carry if they wish but they generally don't scale as well. (Windrunner, Leshrac, Lina, Storm Spirit, Ogre Magi (more support but CAN be played as a carry successfully), Queen of Pain)
There are also heroes that can apply to all categories. (Invoker, Bounty Hunter, Slardar, Lanaya, Sven) Invoker can go DPS build and wreck things with auto-attacks VERY early because of exort as long as he gets some levels, Bounty Hunter scales VERY well because of Jinada and can easily get around the map undetected without losing any farm because of Track, Sven is the basic all-around hero, and Lanaya is a beast mid game.
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#10ShaphrionPosted 7/18/2012 7:28:08 PM
KOTRsss posted...
Hrm. I suppose I've just seen clinkz carry REALLY hard in plenty of pubs.

I guess I dont see how he's different from drow. Is Drow not a hard carry?


Clinkz doesnt have longivity in fights. It what stops him in my eyes from being a hard carry. Drow is a dps machine that never tires. Clinkzs burns out in 10 seconds.

Then theres hard carries like medusa. That will kick your carry's face in while kicking the rest of your teams face in. And still not die even while your whole team focuses fire.
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