Is hand of midas ever worth getting?

#41blade6321Posted 10/3/2012 11:27:09 AM
TheShrike_ posted...
In Dota 1 6.75+, Arc Warden can use it on his primary hero every 100 seconds and on his ult hero clone every 65/60/55 seconds, so it's almost 3x as good for farming bonus - it's totally worth it on him to get it.


Although ,that assumes you ult as soon as you can, and requires you to get to the creep camp, if you want more xp that is.

However I'm unaware of the duration and all that so using it straight away might be ok.

But if so that sounds pretty good.
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#42xoAxeloxPosted 10/3/2012 11:43:03 AM(edited)
Suffer_Not posted...
Well, you have to use it 14 times before it starts "earning" you gold, and if you're using it off of cooldown that's 23 minutes of free farm before it gives you more gold than you would have had (it'll take less time to pay itself off if you use it on critters with a lower standard bounty like, say, spiderlings). And something to note is that the gold it gives is reliable gold, so you don't have to worry about losing it. If you're playing a hero who is going to be spending 30 minutes free farming, you are basically doubling your investment for less risk since it won't hurt as much if you die to a gank.

Outside of boring situations like that, it's got special interaction with Lone Druid. On the one hand, getting one of them lets him jungle on his own while his bear can be pulling camps with the Transmute. Sure, his bear can't attack if it's not close to him, but it can draw aggro by transmuting something and you still get. And then you can get two hands of midas and farm even harder.

And besides being (situationally...) useful for Lone Druid, it's also sort of a counter to him. Got a pesky spirit bear all up in your grill? He's a lot less pesky if you transmute him into gold :x


okay

there are so many things wrong with this post and a couple people already addressed it but i think i need to say a couple things

first of all, unless you decide to get two hands of midas on syllabear, it is completely pointless to use the midas while it is in your bears inventory. you do not get the bonus experience you would get if you have the midas in your bears inventory at the time of usage. in fact, you dont get any experience at all. i tested it a long time ago because i was watching demons stream and he was transferring his midas back and forth between his bear and his hero and i didnt know why.

14 x 190 = 2660g, so your math sucks, go back to grade school or something. midas costs 1900g and every usage gives you 190g plus 2.5x creep exp of whatever you use it on, so its ten uses (one used right when you get it), so really you only have to wait for the cooldown 9 times (100 seconds each, 9x100 = 900s/60 = 15minutes before it pays itself back off in gold not counting the ias and bonus exp).

Suffer_Not posted...
14x190= 2660
14x190= 2660
14x45=630
2660-630=2030

I go with 14 instead of 13 since 13 will give you just shy of 1990, meaning you need on more.

This is assuming you're using them on melee creeps instead of cheep stuff like troll skeletons or spiderlings, as I and others have mentioned.


your thought process is already flawed.

you're not supposed to be using it on "cheap stuff" or lane creeps. you use it on big neutrals to give you the highest amount of exp possible... if you use it on a neutral that would normally give you 150exp, you would get 375 total experience just for walking into the jungle and using midas on it.
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#43TheCoolzPosted 10/3/2012 2:44:26 PM
Depending on the situation, if I care more about gold than exp, I will target the smallest creeps since it gives static +190 while the big creeps give lots of golds as well.

But if you care about a level advantage early, getting them big creeps using Midas is a very wise choice as well.
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#44xoAxeloxPosted 10/3/2012 2:52:06 PM
thats flawed logic.

bigger creeps take a longer time to kill. doesnt matter if they give more gold, the time efficiency is relatively the same

plus getting more exp is way better in the long run
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#45FormalhautPosted 10/3/2012 4:30:31 PM
xoAxelox posted...
thats flawed logic.

bigger creeps take a longer time to kill. doesnt matter if they give more gold, the time efficiency is relatively the same

plus getting more exp is way better in the long run


Sometimes, especially if multiple lanes are pushed out past the river, time efficiency is irrelevant because there's not enough to farm to go around.
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#46ScarletShinPosted 10/4/2012 6:54:39 AM
Just like Devour, keep an eye on it's cooldown and work around it. When it's nearly usable, start hanging around creeps and be ready to use it. THe idea is to keep it on cooldown everytime.
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#47C3rnoPosted 10/4/2012 12:57:21 PM
Early on, you should always be using the midas on the large creeps for the huge experience gain. Levels on earlier levels are extremely important as you'll most likely be skilling your abilities This is also because you cannot kill large creeps very fast just yet. Later on in the game when you're able to kill the large creeps fast and are of a decent level that leveling up only grants you stat gains, perhaps you might consider getting some extra money instead.

The 30 attack speed is worth something. You can also sell the midas later on in the game. The extra experience gain is also huge. This means that the hand of midas is something that will pay for itself faster than you might think. I don't consider 9 transmutations to be the time in which it'll pay off if you consider the boosted xp gain, the attack speed, and the ability to sell it back later on in the game. However, there is another thing to consider. Opportunity cost.

Those couple minutes where you have basically nothing aside from the 30 attack speed that it gives can be dangerous in certain situations. It also disallows you of a few things that could be done. 1900 gold is a pretty decent amount of gold that could be spent towards something else. For example, lots of furions love rushing midas as their first item, and I do too. But sometimes you might want to rush for a mek instead just so you can save that person being ganked at the 8-15 minutes mark where you will only have that midas and little else (If you were jungling).

For carries, it can be dangerous to rush a midas as well sometimes as that gold could've been spent on a faster treads or maybe a vanguard, allowing for some survivability from ganks. If a team is coordinated enough, they should be examining everyone's items on the enemy team. If they see you with only a midas and boots when they have some people at level 5 or 6 with their ultimate and big nukes at level 3, they should be ganking you down repeatedly.

Midas rush also is not recommended against hard pushing lineups as it does little against fast tower pushes. You need early items to fight straightaway.