I have trouble in these situations

#1AiphremPosted 2/7/2013 12:10:54 PM
It seems to happen often in pubs lately that if the enemy team gets an advantage at the beginning of the game (say for example they have better early game heroes or if they got fed in lane), they will 5 man push and we will not be able to stop it, they will get mid rax and we will lose because of that disavantage.

What's the best way to turn this around? If I try to one man push an unoccupied lane, the rest of the team tries to 4v5 team fight and loses (a fight that we would lose anyways if I was there), or they send someone like KotL or Sand king to counterpush me, forcing me to go back.

How should I be directing the team in this sort of situation? Obviously we can't just abandon our towers to farm if they're 5 man pushing, but how should we be reaction to that sort of situation if we just can't win 5 on 5 team fights?

Oh also, this often happens when I'm a hard carry like void or AM. The only cases where we came out of these situations victorious is if they enemy team wastes their early game advantage to go farm, and I end up outfarming them and stomping them late game, but I'm completely at a loss as to what to do in the early mid game when that happens.
Now playing: DotA 2 and anything else in between
#2AllHailTheDead6Posted 2/7/2013 12:22:54 PM
best thing I can say is to just try and hold what towers you can and play smart

I was in a game yesterday where they literally destroyed all our t1 and t2 towers before the 20 min mark and we haven't even touched a t1. We ended up coming back and just destroying them, but it was extremely close most of the game because of their huge gold lead
PSN AllHailTheDead0
#3funkyfritterPosted 2/7/2013 12:26:09 PM
The answer to an early push is heroes with long range aoe abilities to stall while your team farms. As a hard carry you are actively being countered when they push early, but you can sometimes turn things around if you switch up your build. AM for example can fight much earlier if you get vanguard and vlads after treads instead of rushing a battlefury.
And with that...pow! I'm gone!
#4SpeedDemon20Posted 2/7/2013 12:53:30 PM
You only need a couple of nukes to instantly kill creep waves. Tell your carries to go farm somewhere else and to carry at TP scroll in case something does go down (and they should be there once most of the disables/nukes have been used).

Though if the enemy team has someone like Pudge or a blinking initiator, it'd be harder to defend (because the moment someone is out of position, you're boned).

Crystal Maiden... gal could break your heart in a thousand pieces. -Rucks
#5j063356141Posted 2/7/2013 1:32:11 PM
when they do those 5 man pushes i just try and lure them into team fighting under one of our towers then after a few team fights won under tower we come back.
#6Sub TankPosted 2/7/2013 2:53:29 PM
Aiphrem posted...
How should I be directing the team in this sort of situation? Obviously we can't just abandon our towers to farm if they're 5 man pushing, but how should we be reaction to that sort of situation if we just can't win 5 on 5 team fights?

You have a couple options, but it depends on your team composition:

A) The ultimate counter to the 5man is to split push them while the rest of your team stalls the 5man advance. Send a strong pusher like Prophet or Broodmother to go push one of their undefended towers. This way, if you lose a tower, you can still break even. If you can delay them long enough, you might even get multiple towers.

B) Have your team stall the 5man while you (the hard carry) farms like crazy. Hope it goes into lategame, because this is where heroes like Antimage with a battlefury can really pay off. People won't be too happy about this if you farm with complete disregard to the team, so make sure you actually TP back home to help your allies if they need it.

C) Race them. Go 5man down a separate lane and hope for the best. Carry TPs so you can protect your rax.

D) If you have strong teamfight abilities, but are behind in farm / levels, you can try to force a battle in a place where you have better positioning, like behind one of your towers. If you have heroes like Pudge or Venge, you can usually pick someone off, or force them to dive.
"...on a ps3 a realalistic looking megaman with a huge universe to explore rag dog physics." - Djmidnight1
#7Aiphrem(Topic Creator)Posted 2/7/2013 3:49:46 PM
Just played prophet (well I've been playing him for a bit of time), and we started getting stomped early game (our PA was 1/7), but at one point our team started stalling at the tower (we had centaur tide and clockwerk so you can imagine their hesitation to dive), and in the mean time I took down Tier 1 and 2 towers on top lane. From there I was always pushing and farmed up desolator Daedalus and sheep stick, so whenever they tried to send someone to counterpush he got demolished. Our PA farmed up battlefury, BKB, HotD and Heart so she was able to take down their PL pretty well. From there on out our tide had refresher and centaur had pipe so they pushed top rax while I got bot, then it was GG.

I've got to say, prophet is one of my favorite characters so far. Pushing is so easy with him, jungling in the beginning is a piece of cake, and late game you can do a ton of damage with all your farm from pushing.

That reminds me, which damage items are best? I've said that I usually build Hex, deso and Crit, but what else would be good? Is mojlnir a good pick up (also, does it stack with deso?)?
Now playing: DotA 2 and anything else in between
#8ScarletShinPosted 2/9/2013 9:28:02 AM
Your hopes would depend on your line up. How good is your initiator and how well can you guys follow up? I assume your line up is at least decent. Sometimes just one good/bad clash can make or break everything. It's happened a lot to me before, special mention back to the time when I started to play DotA with just my friends. Good early game, one wrong clash, we lose, either because we lost the push near out T3 towers, or because that one lost clash got <insert_hero_here> that <insert_core_item_here> that he/she desperately needed.

This of course, hopes that you also have good coordination with the team.
"What you are attempting is not against the law. It is however, extremely foolish."