Question about Silencer item build

#1angelusalvusPosted 7/25/2013 2:31:16 PM
The guide "welcome to dota, you suck" says that null talisman and its counterparts aren't good, but this guide says I should get two of them: http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/the-sound-of-silence-347
And, so far (I'm still a newbie. Less than a week of experience), this item guide worked sometimes.
But I wonder if there's a way of tweaking it to get better, if possible.
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#2LORDDRAGON1995Posted 7/25/2013 2:45:06 PM
Getting a Null talisman with your starting 603 gold is a bad idea, buying it with early game gold isn't. You could get drums on him, though
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#3angelusalvus(Topic Creator)Posted 7/25/2013 2:54:17 PM(edited)
I only get the talisman or any expensive item after farming a little. never with my starting gold.
But isn't mek better than drum? should I get both?
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#4Ultima_Weapon33Posted 7/25/2013 2:57:15 PM
Null start is good. I do it on every int mid and I am the best of all time. Good on silencer as well.

It gives you nine damage which is a blade of attack but it actually gives other stats. It's for heroes.
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#5iTz_SLammiPosted 7/25/2013 3:24:07 PM
it's not bad to get 1, 2 is overdoin it

i personally spend it on a bracer then build into a drum.
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#6aalniusPosted 7/25/2013 5:06:44 PM
angelusalvus posted...
The guide "welcome to dota, you suck" says that null talisman and its counterparts aren't good, but this guide says I should get two of them: http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/the-sound-of-silence-347
And, so far (I'm still a newbie. Less than a week of experience), this item guide worked sometimes.
But I wonder if there's a way of tweaking it to get better, if possible.


tbh i only get null talismans or wraith bands if i random the hero and have bonus gold otherwise theres much better things to spend the money on such as an early bottle.
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#7Aqua69696Posted 7/25/2013 7:38:19 PM
angelusalvus posted...
The guide "welcome to dota, you suck" says that null talisman and its counterparts aren't good, but this guide says I should get two of them: http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/the-sound-of-silence-347
And, so far (I'm still a newbie. Less than a week of experience), this item guide worked sometimes.
But I wonder if there's a way of tweaking it to get better, if possible.


When you think about it, Null Talisman costs 470, While Blades of attack cost 450.

Blades of Attack give +9 Damage

Null Talisman gives
+3 Strength (+57 HP, + 0.12 HP Regen)
+3 Agility (+ 3 Attack Speed, + 3/7th Armour)
+6 Intelligence (+6 Damage, + 78 Mana, +
+3 Damage

So you see how much better they are than Blades of Attack for only 20 gold more. The trade off is that Null Talismans don't build well, only building into Dagon, a very situational item. This is why it's such a great early game item.

I think one or even two Null Talismans on Silencer is a good idea more than on other heroes.

Silencer is the most useful after a good early game, due to his passive Int Steal. 2 Nulls give him both the mana to sustain harass and +18 Damage + 4 (3.6) Pure Damage from lvl 1 Glaives. If you can get some early kills with Silencer you'll have an easier time getting even more kills, which will be very beneficial. Not to mention that killing enemies with mana problems such as Veno can be very beneficial to you, as that enemy loses 26 Max mana per kill. Hindering them for the remainder of the game, and it solves any and all mana problems you have. An active Silencer involved in 8 kills has 200 more mana than a passive one.
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#8bond21Posted 7/25/2013 7:49:21 PM
From: Ultima_Weapon33
Null start is good. I do it on every int mid and I am the best of all time


sure you are, kid.
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#9kfc-popeyesPosted 7/25/2013 7:56:58 PM
Ultima_Weapon33 posted...
Null start is good. I do it on every int mid and I am the best of all time. Good on silencer as well.

It gives you nine damage which is a blade of attack but it actually gives other stats. It's for heroes.


The problem with this is that you cannot afford two regen items. If the lane I'm expecting mid is slightly passive by nature, I might start with null but I'd just usually start with a circlet a mantle tango a pot and gg branches. 185 + 150 + 90 + 100 + 53 = 578

Compare with 560 for a Null + Tangoes. 3 all stats + 3 int + 3 dmg vs. 3 all stats +3 int + a spare regen item. Once you can afford the Null recipe, you will start to reap a lot of rewards too (after like 2 last hits, which shouldn't be a problem at all) in addition to those great gg branch bonuses. For starting items you should really capitalize on the efficiency of the gg branch and the fact that you aren't at a stage of a game where having free slots is important; no need to compress things down to 2 slots out of 6 just yet

If you random though, you'll discover you can't buy as many gg branches as you may like cause you run out of space faster than gold. This would be a very appropriate time to start with a Null/Wraith/Bracer (cept bracers real expensive...)

Either case, starting with Null isn't bad, but you can get slightly better items with the branch
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#10Ultima_Weapon33Posted 7/25/2013 8:18:15 PM
I don't start with any regen most of the times I'm mid, and I win 90% of my middle lanes unless there's a really bad matchup or lane camping.

You don't need regen most of the time as people tend to be passive, and it just quickens your bottle. If you're a bottleless mid, then you of course start with regen and you can ferry more whenever you want because you have courier priority. If the enemy double regens, that means you hit them harder, which means they might die on engagement or be outfought. Then you ferry regen and it's your victory. You have the last hit and deny advantage.
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