Who says the Stormcloaks can't handle the Thalmor?

#41daveliciousPosted 6/22/2012 8:09:22 AM(edited)
zerobobo posted...
well the stormcloaks were able to take solitude because the imperials there were cut off, had no supply routes or reinforcements and were really badly understaffed. since you know, you killed a majority of their forces getting to solitude. did you just sorta forget that fact?

again, the cold argument DOES work. a dozen or so thalmor dudes in a nice warm cottage with tons of supplies constantly being wagoned up to them is NOT THE SAME as thousands of thalmor troops having to sleep in tents in the frozen fields of skyrim. thats not the same damn thing. are you insane? camping military troops is not the same as a warm cozy embassy cottage. go to the mountains of Colorado, sleep in a nice cabin for a night, then go sleep in a tent the next night. see the difference? do i really need to explain the differences of having a nice warm house to stay in and camping in an icefield? seriously?

also, just because there isn't snow somewhere, doesnt mean its not very cold. also, you're assuming they can land and just sorta swing out and take everything thats not covered in snow. it doesnt work that way. they would need to take solitude and the stormcloaks could just focus their defenses there and easily hold out. medieval era naval ships arent reliable tools for a full scale invasion from a long distance away.


That kind of takes away from your stormcloak army doubling in size assertion if the skyrim arm of the legion is already understaffed by the time you complete the civil war from the stormcloak side doesn't it?

The thalmor probably wouldn't sleep in tents anyway... they'd head up the river, stage a quick battle to take over dragon bridge, the lumber mill, and the farm just south of solitude. Likely they'd attempt to take solitude as quickly as it was taken from the empire in the civil war battle.

With solitude in their grasp, they are well supplied thanks to the east empire company warehouse, plus the sawmill and the farm. They can then concert their forces to the entire peninsula by combining forces with the thalmor contingent at northwatch keep as well as the embassy. Now that I think about it... Northwatch keep is already on the coast... and it's isolated. The thalmor could start pumping troops into skyrim before any of the stormcloaks even realize what's happening.

Once they hold solitude, they have a strong foothold and reliable port to move troops and supplies freely.
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#42zeroboboPosted 6/22/2012 8:09:42 AM
also, i HIGHLY doubt the thalmor would invade skyrim. what do they gain from that? not much.
they'd lose most of their forces and resources even if they were successful and i dont think they would be. it;d be like the nazi invasion of russia in WW2. they'd freeze, starve and die.

but. lets say the thalmor DID decide to invade skyrim. lets not even talk about if they'd win or not. would the empire just sit there? i HIGHLY doubt it. not saying the empire would even come to skyrims aid. im saying with a HUGE chunk of the thalmor forces and resources devoted to invading skyrim the empire could attack the thalmor, it'd be the perfect opportunity.

you said yourself, the bulk of the empire and thalmor forces are massed at the borders. the thalmor would have to pull most of them off for even a chance at a successful skyrim invasion. the empire is not going to sit there with their thumbs up their asses.

not to mention hammerfell who had pretty much recently retaken their lands. who'd probably join the fight.
the stormcloaks winning the civil war is good for everyone. even the empire believe it or not. with skyrim lost they can focus entirely on the thalmor. the stormcloaks would probably even agree to help the empire fight the thalmor as long as they could remain independent.
#43daveliciousPosted 6/22/2012 8:16:03 AM
zerobobo posted...
also, i HIGHLY doubt the thalmor would invade skyrim. what do they gain from that? not much.
they'd lose most of their forces and resources even if they were successful and i dont think they would be. it;d be like the nazi invasion of russia in WW2. they'd freeze, starve and die.

but. lets say the thalmor DID decide to invade skyrim. lets not even talk about if they'd win or not. would the empire just sit there? i HIGHLY doubt it. not saying the empire would even come to skyrims aid. im saying with a HUGE chunk of the thalmor forces and resources devoted to invading skyrim the empire could attack the thalmor, it'd be the perfect opportunity.

you said yourself, the bulk of the empire and thalmor forces are massed at the borders. the thalmor would have to pull most of them off for even a chance at a successful skyrim invasion. the empire is not going to sit there with their thumbs up their asses.

not to mention hammerfell who had pretty much recently retaken their lands. who'd probably join the fight.
the stormcloaks winning the civil war is good for everyone. even the empire believe it or not. with skyrim lost they can focus entirely on the thalmor. the stormcloaks would probably even agree to help the empire fight the thalmor as long as they could remain independent.


The empire didn't come to hammerfell's aid either... Keep in mind that hammerfell currently has a treaty with the dominion and is still recovering from their weakened state after their little war with the thalmor that preceded the treaty.

hammerfell might help... they might not. The empire MIGHT help, but only if they are willing to break the white-gold concordat, which would just start the ENTIRE war up again... except this time, the thalmor are fighting against a less organized concerted force since hammerfell and skyrim are both independent and will be looking out for their own needs rather than the whole of the allied troops.

Divide and conquer.
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#44CRtwentyPosted 6/22/2012 8:18:40 AM
Yeah, Stormcloaks or Empire the second war with the Thalmor will not be taking place in Skyrim. Their target will most likely be Cyrodil or possibly High rock. Or if the Empire makes the first move an assault on Valenwood. (Since they're not stupid enough to risk a naval assault on the Sommerset Isles at this point)
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#45zeroboboPosted 6/22/2012 8:19:20 AM
davelicious posted...
zerobobo posted...
well the stormcloaks were able to take solitude because the imperials there were cut off, had no supply routes or reinforcements and were really badly understaffed. since you know, you killed a majority of their forces getting to solitude. did you just sorta forget that fact?

again, the cold argument DOES work. a dozen or so thalmor dudes in a nice warm cottage with tons of supplies constantly being wagoned up to them is NOT THE SAME as thousands of thalmor troops having to sleep in tents in the frozen fields of skyrim. thats not the same damn thing. are you insane? camping military troops is not the same as a warm cozy embassy cottage. go to the mountains of Colorado, sleep in a nice cabin for a night, then go sleep in a tent the next night. see the difference? do i really need to explain the differences of having a nice warm house to stay in and camping in an icefield? seriously?

also, just because there isn't snow somewhere, doesnt mean its not very cold. also, you're assuming they can land and just sorta swing out and take everything thats not covered in snow. it doesnt work that way. they would need to take solitude and the stormcloaks could just focus their defenses there and easily hold out. medieval era naval ships arent reliable tools for a full scale invasion from a long distance away.


That kind of takes away from your stormcloak army doubling in size assertion if the skyrim arm of the legion is already understaffed by the time you complete the civil war from the stormcloak side doesn't it?

The thalmor probably wouldn't sleep in tents anyway... they'd head up the river, stage a quick battle to take over dragon bridge, the lumber mill, and the farm just south of solitude. Likely they'd attempt to take solitude as quickly as it was taken from the empire in the civil war battle.

With solitude in their grasp, they are well supplied thanks to the east empire company warehouse, plus the sawmill and the farm. They can then concert their forces to the entire peninsula by combining forces with the thalmor contingent at northwatch keep as well as the embassy. Now that I think about it... Northwatch keep is already on the coast... and it's isolated. The thalmor could start pumping troops into skyrim before any of the stormcloaks even realize what's happening.

Once they hold solitude, they have a strong foothold and reliable port to move troops and supplies freely.


how exactly are they going to land on shore, unload troops, march down the road, take dragonsbridge and then sack solitude without anyone noticing? a fleet of ships isn't exactly subtle or fast. large naval ships can't just stop anywhere either. seaworthy ships can't go down small rivers, you know that right? big difference between boats that go in rivers and boats that go in the ocean. it would take hours, even days to unload troops off ships like that without a secured port.

you can see a fleet of ships from miles away. the stormcloaks would have PLENTY of warning.
the thing about naval invasions is that they aren't subtle. they take ALOT of time to set up and land. the enemy will always know you're coming way before hand since you CANT SNEAK UP ON THEM WITH A FLEET OF REALLY OBVIOUS SHIPS lol.
they can't go down the rivers because seaworthy ships can't fit. they'd have to use smaller boats to transport people and supplies off the boats.

it wouldnt work.
#46CharocksPosted 6/22/2012 8:20:24 AM
Logic. A ragtag group of poorly equipped rebels fighting a horde of ruthless, magic-wielding elves.

Now Hammerfell is Napoleonic or WWII Russia. Hammerfell is a DESERT. The Redguards took thousands of years to adapt to it and I bet nature killed more elves than anything else.
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#47maturin1919Posted 6/22/2012 8:22:21 AM
The Stormcloaks can handle anything. They have me, the dragonborn, on their side.

You might've heard... I'm kind of a big deal.
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#48daveliciousPosted 6/22/2012 8:22:44 AM
zerobobo posted...
how exactly are they going to land on shore, unload troops, march down the road, take dragonsbridge and then sack solitude without anyone noticing? a fleet of ships isn't exactly subtle or fast. large naval ships can't just stop anywhere either. seaworthy ships can't go down small rivers, you know that right? big difference between boats that go in rivers and boats that go in the ocean. it would take hours, even days to unload troops off ships like that without a secured port.

you can see a fleet of ships from miles away. the stormcloaks would have PLENTY of warning.
the thing about naval invasions is that they aren't subtle. they take ALOT of time to set up and land. the enemy will always know you're coming way before hand since you CANT SNEAK UP ON THEM WITH A FLEET OF REALLY OBVIOUS SHIPS lol.
they can't go down the rivers because seaworthy ships can't fit. they'd have to use smaller boats to transport people and supplies off the boats.

it wouldnt work.


You should have more faith in a naval invasion of skyrim. Afterall, Ysgramor and his 500 companions invaded skyrim by ship from Atmora to take it from the snow elves. Look at where the snow elves are now.
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#49ChunhwaPosted 6/22/2012 8:25:43 AM
zerobobo posted...
also, i HIGHLY doubt the thalmor would invade skyrim. what do they gain from that? not much.
they'd lose most of their forces and resources even if they were successful and i dont think they would be. it;d be like the nazi invasion of russia in WW2. they'd freeze, starve and die.

but. lets say the thalmor DID decide to invade skyrim. lets not even talk about if they'd win or not. would the empire just sit there? i HIGHLY doubt it. not saying the empire would even come to skyrims aid. im saying with a HUGE chunk of the thalmor forces and resources devoted to invading skyrim the empire could attack the thalmor, it'd be the perfect opportunity.

you said yourself, the bulk of the empire and thalmor forces are massed at the borders. the thalmor would have to pull most of them off for even a chance at a successful skyrim invasion. the empire is not going to sit there with their thumbs up their asses.

not to mention hammerfell who had pretty much recently retaken their lands. who'd probably join the fight.
the stormcloaks winning the civil war is good for everyone. even the empire believe it or not. with skyrim lost they can focus entirely on the thalmor. the stormcloaks would probably even agree to help the empire fight the thalmor as long as they could remain independent.


Oh they most definitely HAVE to invade Skyrim. They're not trying to sustain an empire. The Thalmor are literally trying to destroy the world. They plan to accomplish this by stamping out belief in Talos, who is currently single-handedly holding the world together and keeping the next kalpa from coming in to being.

It's kind of a "clap your hands if you believe" kinda deal. If worship of Talos completely dies out, the last pillar collapses and so does this kalpa. I'm recalling this information pretty vaguely, so I might be incorrect on some details, but the gist of it is true.
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#50HeeroYuy0195Posted 6/22/2012 8:27:21 AM
zerobobo posted...
the stormcloaks winning the civil war is good for everyone. even the empire believe it or not. with skyrim lost they can focus entirely on the thalmor. the stormcloaks would probably even agree to help the empire fight the thalmor as long as they could remain independent.


Exactly,As Pulled from Ulfric Stormcloak's Thalmor Dossier found here
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Thalmor_Dossier%3A_Ulfric_Stormcloak

"As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the change of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.) A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed."

they WANT the Civil war to continue.it Drains the resources of BOTH sides.they are banking on the fact that a Stalemate might force the Empire to send Another Legion or two to finally break the Stormcloak's back for good.Weakening the Empire's border defenses.
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