Bladesman and crit charge

#1NepharenPosted 10/3/2012 8:17:43 PM
Making a swordsman build that relies on every ounce of damage I can manage without any crafting.

Uesp lists bladesman giving a boost in crit damage as well as crit chance. Does anyone know if the extra crit damage stacks with critical charge?

Also well aware that bladesman only affects the base damage of the weapon used.
#2theonyxphoenixPosted 10/3/2012 8:22:11 PM
I'm 99% sure that Bladesman's effect adds to the critical damage and then the critical charge would kick in.
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#3Nepharen(Topic Creator)Posted 10/3/2012 8:33:44 PM
Thank you very much. This is what I was thinking as well but wasn't certain.
#4IamI3rianPosted 10/3/2012 9:57:35 PM
No no.

At least with bows... crit numbers are always separate. If memory serves, the critical charge is a +100% BASE damage crit. It's NOT increased by bladesman.

I could be wrong, but I'm nearly positive I'm not. That's the way it works for bows, and two-handers at least. = /

What this means, is that no matter what, crit charge is only +100% base damage. Again, I suppose I could be wrong.
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#5theonyxphoenixPosted 10/3/2012 10:22:30 PM
It is late, so pardon me if my math is off...

So a dragonbone sword (19) would have power attack (+19) increased by Bladesman to (+28) and then have Critical Strike add its damage (+19) so that makes 66

19+28+19 = 66...or 47 total extra critical damage

Now Bladesman only gives you +9 damage 20% of the time over a regular power attack so it hardly seems worth it. Those weapon perks are a waste.

If Critical came in to play afterwards it would be better.

I'll defer to Brian on this one.
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You might be a king or a little street sweeper, but sooner
or later you dance with the reaper.
#6IamI3rianPosted 10/3/2012 10:28:13 PM
Uh... well... those don't stack.

DBSword = 19 (I guess). Power attack doesn't stack with EITHER bladesman or Crit Strike (as far as I can remember). I don't believe you can trigger a crit with a power attack, is what I'm getting at. It's certain you can't power attack and crit strike at the same time.

Also, FWIW the bladesman crit doesn't use stamina like a power attack would.

Incidentally, can't stack a sneak crit in there either (which is actually useful). = )

I've tried (many of) these methods while researching the Bounder thread. I really should submit that to the skyrimblog one of these days. = )
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IamI3rian told ya
"Your 15 minutes of fame are up. Please move along."-KingMaximus8250 to me.Yeah I've never heard of him either..
#7Nepharen(Topic Creator)Posted 10/3/2012 11:44:09 PM
Was under the impression that critical charge is a power attack, therefore it would get the normal benefits of a power attack being double your attack power, in addition to the double crit damage if you are able to crit.

Being able to perform a critical hit is dependent on the bladesman perk and using a one hand blade. 1 perk will give a boost in damage of 100% base damage of weapon, 2 perks would be 125%, and 3 perks for 150% base damage. Chance of crit is 10%, 15%, and 20% respectively.

Dragonbone sword has a base damage of 15 (weight of 19) a crit hit with all three perks will do an additional 22 points of damage.

When using critical charge wouldn't this become 44 points of critical hit damage with a 20% chance of activating in addition to the guaranteed power attack damage of twice the displayed weapon damage?
#8IamI3rianPosted 10/3/2012 11:48:49 PM
FWIW... I'm 98% positive both charge crits are borked, and don't actually increase damage AT ALL... didn't think of it til RIGHT now though. No no... not BOOST in damage... TOTAL damage.

1/3 = 100% damage (I think it's broken)
2/3 = 125% damage (TOTAL... not boost)
3/3 = 150% damage (again, same thing).

When using critical charge wouldn't this become 44 points of critical hit damage with a 20% chance of activating in addition to the guaranteed power attack damage of twice the displayed weapon damage?

IF this worked (which I'm 98% certain it doesn't) it would instead be 19x2= 38 damage. No additional chance of bladesman activating.

I promise. Also, there's no additional power attack damage. Simply 38 damage total. (Assuming it's boosting the attack AT ALL... I haven't tested enough at "low" damage levels to notice).
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IamI3rian told ya
"Your 15 minutes of fame are up. Please move along."-KingMaximus8250 to me.Yeah I've never heard of him either..
#9HadukenGod2Posted 10/4/2012 12:23:08 AM
without sounding like an pompous as***** like some before me with all their numbers and crap.....the perks offer verry little damage critical chance so are avoidable
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#10Nepharen(Topic Creator)Posted 10/4/2012 12:23:23 AM
Wow, didn't realize bladesman was that broken.

Ok, so with a base damage of 15 the critical hit damage with all three perks is only 7
If critical charge works it turns into 14

The minimum requirement for all three bladesman is a skill level of 90 which is a damage multiplier of 1.45

In order to acquire crit charge you must take one level of armsman so a damage multiplier of 1.2

With the damage multipliers the displayed damage for a 15 base damage weapon is 26

With a power attack it becomes 52

If I use critical charge and it's working I only get 26+14= 40 damage instead of 52+14=66

Is this correct?