I feel terribly guilty after winning for the Stormcloaks..

#51NicodaemosPosted 11/26/2012 11:09:49 PM
From: zerobobo | Posted: 11/26/2012 11:03:05 PM | #049
he's no where near as bad as maven. he was just naive and thought he could control them when he obviously couldnt.


ITP: premeditated murder, bribing the town guard, and slavery is just genuine naivety.

Keep writing up more of that Thonar fanfic though, maybe one day they'll go back and make it canon.
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Until you spread your wings, you'll never know how far you can walk.
GT-- The Baconer
#52Storm_WalkerPosted 11/26/2012 11:15:34 PM
The_Beer_Scotch posted...
Storm_Walker posted...
Grenpa posted...
I sided with the Empire, the empire doesn't want the Thalmor doing what they're doing, but the Thalmor DESTROYED them, they basically said "If you don't surrender to us, we'll completely wipe out what's left of your Empire". The Empire had to choice but to agree to the Thalmors terms, or be completely destroyed. To me, it seems like the Empire agreed just to save itself, and gain strength to fight the Thalmor. Ulfrics just a scumbag who wants power, and uses what's happening in order to achieve what he wants. It seemed to me if you sided with him you were delivering power to him.
tl;dr: The Empires just trying to buy time and Ulfrics a power hungry racist.


This, right here. Also, the Thalmor didn't come as far as they have through brute strength, they took over Summerset Isle, Valenwood, and Elsweyr through much sneakier means. Part of the mainquest uncovers evidence that the Thalmor had a hand in the civil war happening, and they want it to go on as long as possible. Of course the Blades, who were tied to the Order of Talos, were a major thorn in their sides from the beginning. So the White-Gold Concordat disbands them, and then to make sure that they can track down any hiding Blades, the ban on the worship of Talos is also part of it. That plus the Thalmor never believed in him anyway, and doing that would demoralize a lot of people, even to the point of starting a civil war in Skyrim.

One thing the Thalmor never counted on was the Dragonborn getting involved, someone with the power to end the war quickly with as few casualties as possible. Then there's Ulfric himself; I get the feeling from him that he fancies himself the next Talos, just because he can use the Thu'um. For all of these reasons, and also because I've done each side at least once, I always side with the Empire now. Sure it's corrupt, but that can be fixed later. And I'm pretty sure that, as Dragonborn, even if I had sided with the Stormcloaks, I'd have to put that heretic Ulfric in his place at some point anyway.


Again, wrong.

If you do not know the games lore (which is fine, not everybody does...) do not comment on the lore.


No, I'm not. Here's why:

Rising Threat, Vol. 1-4
The Great War
Thalmor Dossier of Ulfric Stormcloak
Everything that Delphine says about the Thalmor
Having prior knowledge of the Blades doing much, MUCH more for the Emperor than just protecting him
Fall from Glory
The rest of conjecture on my part, but seeing as how I don't consider myself to be a total pinhead, I can be pretty confident about what I believe is going on here. I would think that documents and reliable testimony from NPCs IN THE FREAKIN' GAME would be legit as lore. But maybe I'm wrong; if so, Mr. Loremaster, give me some evidence to prove it. I dare you. If not, then would you kindly stop trying to impede my right to freedom of speech before I find a computer virus that punches people in the face through a computer monitor and use it on you. Thanks, adios.
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"I'm feelin' peachy keen, so f%@& you, and thanks for asking ^/.^"
#53zeroboboPosted 11/26/2012 11:15:53 PM
Nicodaemos posted...
From: zerobobo | Posted: 11/26/2012 11:03:05 PM | #049
he's no where near as bad as maven. he was just naive and thought he could control them when he obviously couldnt.


ITP: premeditated murder, bribing the town guard, and slavery is just genuine naivety.

Keep writing up more of that Thonar fanfic though, maybe one day they'll go back and make it canon.


you're unnecessarily hostile for no reason rofl.

im not saying he's a good guy, im saying he's a small time crimelord who got in WAY over his head, which is making him rethink his choices.

maven is a big time crime boss.

Maven is a Batman villian in gotham.
Thonar is a reject Nightwing villian in bludhaven
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Gamertag: Clonedzero
#54CaptainKatsuraPosted 11/26/2012 11:22:40 PM(edited)
I prefer neutrality.

You're Dragonborn,the only reason either side wins is literally because of you.That,and as Dragonborn,you got more important stuff to be doing,like killing Alduin instead of wasting time on an useless civil war.If the Empire and Stormcloaks want to go at it with each other instead of teaming up against their common enemy that is the Thalmor Dominion and help impede the Dragon Invasion,then let God sort them out.
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Herp-a derp
#55zeroboboPosted 11/26/2012 11:25:54 PM
CaptainKatsura posted...
I prefer neutrality.

You're Dragonborn,the only reason either side wins is literally because of you.That,and as Dragonborn,you got more important stuff to be doing,like killing Alduin instead of wasting time on an useless civil war.If the Empire and Stormcloaks want to go at it with each other instead of teaming up against their common enemy that is the Thalmor Dominion and help impede the Dragon Invasion,then let God sort them out.


i kinda agree.
my nords side with the stormcloaks, my imperials side with the empire, every other race i play as stays neutral as i dont think any of them would care enough to pick a side.

my redguard zerkermage certainly didnt care!
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Gamertag: Clonedzero
#56darkportal785Posted 11/26/2012 11:34:11 PM
zerobobo posted...
Nicodaemos posted...
From: zerobobo | Posted: 11/26/2012 11:03:05 PM | #049
he's no where near as bad as maven. he was just naive and thought he could control them when he obviously couldnt.


ITP: premeditated murder, bribing the town guard, and slavery is just genuine naivety.

Keep writing up more of that Thonar fanfic though, maybe one day they'll go back and make it canon.


you're unnecessarily hostile for no reason rofl.

im not saying he's a good guy, im saying he's a small time crimelord who got in WAY over his head, which is making him rethink his choices.

maven is a big time crime boss.

Maven is a Batman villian in gotham.
Thonar is a reject Nightwing villian in bludhaven


Controlling practically the whole city by way of it's prison (which is also a major mine in the province), inn, Treasury, and it's city guard is small time?

Compared to Maven? Really? All she has is co-ownership of a meadery, some pull with the city government, and connections to not only one, but two failing Guilds.
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I don't give a chainsaw. About anything. Chainsaw everyone and everything.
#57RebelElite791Posted 11/26/2012 11:34:54 PM
CaptainKatsura posted...
I prefer neutrality.

You're Dragonborn,the only reason either side wins is literally because of you.That,and as Dragonborn,you got more important stuff to be doing,like killing Alduin instead of wasting time on an useless civil war.If the Empire and Stormcloaks want to go at it with each other instead of teaming up against their common enemy that is the Thalmor Dominion and help impede the Dragon Invasion,then let God sort them out.


Hey, it's my duty as a Shezarrine to stop those haughty elves.
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Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls, and ask the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer. http://i.imgur.com/VZeCB.gif
#58JoeSnake132Posted 11/26/2012 11:36:00 PM
Honestly you have nothing to worry about, This civil war won't effect any longer term affects.
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which is better to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through effort?
#59The_Beer_ScotchPosted 11/26/2012 11:55:23 PM
Storm_Walker posted...
The_Beer_Scotch posted...
Storm_Walker posted...
Grenpa posted...
Snip


Also, the Thalmor didn't come as far as they have through brute strength, they took over Summerset Isle, Valenwood, and Elsweyr through much sneakier means. Part of the mainquest uncovers evidence that the Thalmor had a hand in the civil war happening, and they want it to go on as long as possible. Of course the Blades, who were tied to the Order of Talos, were a major thorn in their sides from the beginning. So the White-Gold Concordat disbands them, and then to make sure that they can track down any hiding Blades, the ban on the worship of Talos is also part of it. That plus the Thalmor never believed in him anyway, and doing that would demoralize a lot of people, even to the point of starting a civil war in Skyrim.

One thing the Thalmor never counted on was the Dragonborn getting involved, someone with the power to end the war quickly with as few casualties as possible. Then there's Ulfric himself; I get the feeling from him that he fancies himself the next Talos, just because he can use the Thu'um. For all of these reasons, and also because I've done each side at least once, I always side with the Empire now. Sure it's corrupt, but that can be fixed later. And I'm pretty sure that, as Dragonborn, even if I had sided with the Stormcloaks, I'd have to put that heretic Ulfric in his place at some point anyway.


Again, wrong.

If you do not know the games lore (which is fine, not everybody does...) do not comment on the lore.


No, I'm not. Here's why:

Rising Threat, Vol. 1-4
The Great War
Thalmor Dossier of Ulfric Stormcloak
Everything that Delphine says about the Thalmor
Having prior knowledge of the Blades doing much, MUCH more for the Emperor than just protecting him
Fall from Glory
The rest of conjecture on my part, but seeing as how I don't consider myself to be a total pinhead, I can be pretty confident about what I believe is going on here. I would think that documents and reliable testimony from NPCs IN THE FREAKIN' GAME would be legit as lore. But maybe I'm wrong; if so, Mr. Loremaster, give me some evidence to prove it. I dare you. If not, then would you kindly stop trying to impede my right to freedom of speech before I find a computer virus that punches people in the face through a computer monitor and use it on you. Thanks, adios.


Unnecesarry hostility alert? You are not altogether wrong (some parts are correct), but the below is certainly wrong.

You are making absurd claims like ulfric thinks he is the next talos. I understand you stated that as opinion... but what? Wheres the basis for that?

And that the thalmor don't believe in talos... Well (at least the higher ups in the thalmor) believe in talos as being a real entity... there goal is to wipe out men, which they think will undo talos, in order to undo creation in an attempt to regain immortality and undo the "prison" that is nirn.

The blades (nothing to do with the order of talos) heavily damaged the thalmor at the beginning of the war (or just before, I forget) in number of covert operations. Thats why they are being hunted down.

And using things like delphines clearly ignorant views as vague evidence is laughable.

Not everything in the game said by npcs is true, so you can't just take it out of context and make it so.

The ban on talos is unrelated to the blades. As described above.

Thank you for calling me a loremaster like it is some sort of insult?

And perhaps learn some manners before you go flinging abuse at people. Would be nice.
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The road goes ever on and on....
Time to replay ff9 and Grandia... whee
#60someclown911Posted 11/27/2012 12:00:12 AM
WiiareVenom posted...
Probably, though he already had a bigger hold there than Maven did on Riften. She has some Thieves cursed with bad luck, Thonar has an army of crazy, hopped up tribals who are crazier than Ulfric and Septimus combined<.<


You have to appreciate Maven's skills. She doesn't need an army of psychos to have a jarl in her pocket. If you read her note to the jarl on exactly how she were to imprison her son but treat him like royalty while they do it you'll have a decent idea of just how much power she actually has in Riften

Sure she's a b****, but I steal things from her house. We're either even, or I'm the bigger a******. And her kids are so previously naive. Silly blackbriars