I feel terribly guilty after winning for the Stormcloaks..

#71x5N1P3Rx_X513Posted 11/27/2012 4:42:09 AM
No matter what the resolution of the civil war, being leaderless is never good for a nation's stability. Skyrim will get spit out of the Empire eventually, so you're choosing between Ulfric or whatever other ruler appears (most likely Elisif). I may not be sure how someone else would handle it (too many variables except for Elisif, she'd be near useless in the day-to-day), but I know without a shadow of a doubt Ulfric would be the stereotype "I'm not joining the Empire to fight the Thalmor even if I need their help! NOARD POWUR!" and end up making Skyrim a Thalmor state because he was to proud to ask for help.

It may be unfounded, but with a little thinking and common sense it shows up like this.

And also, saying "Are you from the future?!" is just an idiotic redirect and only proves that someone bashed your theory. Don't be so butthurt.
---
When life gives you lemons... Go kill a clown - Festus Krex
Argonian Dovahkiin and proud resident of Hjerim. Racist Nords can suck it!
#72daveliciousPosted 11/27/2012 4:52:09 AM
jrr18 posted...
Rampagingwalrus posted...
Helping the Empire does the same thing...


Only the Riften Jarl is better then her replacement though and that's debatable if once you find out she shunned her son for saying ulfrics wrong. At least Mavens open about being a b****.


Especially when you consider that if you gain enough trust with laila law giver (jarl of riften) by becoming thane, and then ask her about how she feels about ulfric and the war, she will come right out and tell you that she's not so sure about ulfric's motives. Persecuting her son simply for saying out loud what she was already thinking.
---
PSN: Davelicious GT: DavePeesThePool
NEW SETUP: http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee174/Davelicious406/DSC02294.jpg
#73Nova EX(Topic Creator)Posted 11/27/2012 4:57:22 AM
zerobobo posted...
on a side note, i actually felt guilty when i took skyrim for the imperials. since thalmor patrols are only in empire controlled holds, when you start seeing them in areas you normally dont and realized you allowed the spread of oppression and torture, it really got to me.

i remember after playing TONS, my first empire siding character took riften, then i was walking down the road and saw a thalmor patrol escorting a prisoner who was obviously going to be tortured and executed, it really bothered me.

its true though, thalmor patrols only spawn in imperial controlled holds. so they'll be everywhere.

then the imperial soldiers who took up the guard in riften started talking about how it'd be the perfect spot for launching an invasion into morrowind, and i was disgusted, why the hell would they want to invade morrowind? wtf
what has the empire become?


Yeah this is kinda why I went the way I did with the Stormcloaks. The way I look at it Stormcloaks < Thalmor. I picked the lesser of two evils (not that I would side Thalmor anyway). Its sad because the Stormcloaks have the right idea (IMO) but they are lead by a jack ass. I just dont like how Ulfric killed Torygg to start all of this. Should have started his rebellion first then killed Torygg at the end.


And I cant help but feel Bethesda is setting the series up for a collapse of the Empire. Hammerfell breaks off before the game. Black Marsh had their own rebellion and gained sovereignty. In Morrowind, Vvardenfell got destroyed by Red Mountain, with the lower half of Morrowind being taken over by the Argonians, leaving bits and pieces here and there left of the actual nation. Summerset, Valenwood, and Elsweyr (partially) make up the Dominion.

The Empire at the time of the game is only Cyrodiil, Skyrim, and High Rock. With the Stormcloaks winning, it leaves Cyrodiil and High Rock, which is blocked off by Hammerfell, meaning High Rock will probably cede too.

And then you have the events of the DB. I dont think the Empire is gonna survive past this game.
---
GT: GhostyLasers
Its not about strength or power, you gotta be fluid, you have to be like water.
#74deadpool223Posted 11/27/2012 5:46:45 AM
Nova EX posted...
zerobobo posted...
on a side note, i actually felt guilty when i took skyrim for the imperials. since thalmor patrols are only in empire controlled holds, when you start seeing them in areas you normally dont and realized you allowed the spread of oppression and torture, it really got to me.

i remember after playing TONS, my first empire siding character took riften, then i was walking down the road and saw a thalmor patrol escorting a prisoner who was obviously going to be tortured and executed, it really bothered me.

its true though, thalmor patrols only spawn in imperial controlled holds. so they'll be everywhere.

then the imperial soldiers who took up the guard in riften started talking about how it'd be the perfect spot for launching an invasion into morrowind, and i was disgusted, why the hell would they want to invade morrowind? wtf
what has the empire become?


Yeah this is kinda why I went the way I did with the Stormcloaks. The way I look at it Stormcloaks < Thalmor. I picked the lesser of two evils (not that I would side Thalmor anyway). Its sad because the Stormcloaks have the right idea (IMO) but they are lead by a jack ass. I just dont like how Ulfric killed Torygg to start all of this. Should have started his rebellion first then killed Torygg at the end.


And I cant help but feel Bethesda is setting the series up for a collapse of the Empire. Hammerfell breaks off before the game. Black Marsh had their own rebellion and gained sovereignty. In Morrowind, Vvardenfell got destroyed by Red Mountain, with the lower half of Morrowind being taken over by the Argonians, leaving bits and pieces here and there left of the actual nation. Summerset, Valenwood, and Elsweyr (partially) make up the Dominion.

The Empire at the time of the game is only Cyrodiil, Skyrim, and High Rock. With the Stormcloaks winning, it leaves Cyrodiil and High Rock, which is blocked off by Hammerfell, meaning High Rock will probably cede too.

And then you have the events of the DB. I dont think the Empire is gonna survive past this game.


ya know i never actually thought of highrock but thats true.
---
honk HONK honk HONK http://i.imgur.com/NztEG.gif. :33 < fus ro paw,
#75Ajd_KingPosted 11/27/2012 6:08:51 AM(edited)
Nova EX posted...
Yeah this is kinda why I went the way I did with the Stormcloaks. The way I look at it Stormcloaks < Thalmor. I picked the lesser of two evils (not that I would side Thalmor anyway). Its sad because the Stormcloaks have the right idea (IMO) but they are lead by a jack ass. I just dont like how Ulfric killed Torygg to start all of this. Should have started his rebellion first then killed Torygg at the end.


And I cant help but feel Bethesda is setting the series up for a collapse of the Empire. Hammerfell breaks off before the game. Black Marsh had their own rebellion and gained sovereignty. In Morrowind, Vvardenfell got destroyed by Red Mountain, with the lower half of Morrowind being taken over by the Argonians, leaving bits and pieces here and there left of the actual nation. Summerset, Valenwood, and Elsweyr (partially) make up the Dominion.

The Empire at the time of the game is only Cyrodiil, Skyrim, and High Rock. With the Stormcloaks winning, it leaves Cyrodiil and High Rock, which is blocked off by Hammerfell, meaning High Rock will probably cede too.

And then you have the events of the DB. I dont think the Empire is gonna survive past this game.


You know, BM seceding, Morrowind being overrun, the Dominion forming, Catland seceding, that all happened before the Mede Empire was created. The Septim Empire had already died before the Dominion became an active threat. The Mede Empire was pretty static for almost 200 years, it wasn't on a downward slope until recently.
---
Maester Luwin paying the Iron Price.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m45601wPKE1qezjc1o1_500.gif
#76Nova EX(Topic Creator)Posted 11/27/2012 6:08:58 AM
Ajd_King posted...


You know, BM seceding, Morrowind being overrun, the Dominion forming, Catland seceding, that all happened before the Mede Empire was created.


Yes, but as far as I know, the Mede empire made no real gains in piecing back the Empire. In fact as was discussed in the topic, they kinda had a set back after the White-Gold Concordat. Now another setback with the Stormcloak Rebellion.

Although im not really criticizing the efforts of the Mede Empire, im just stating the events that Bethesda listed in between games that would show the player a much weaker Empire than the one the player was familiar with in Oblivion. With the events of Skyrim, it has only become weaker.
---
GT: GhostyLasers
Its not about strength or power, you gotta be fluid, you have to be like water.
#77Ajd_KingPosted 11/27/2012 6:16:42 AM
Nova EX posted...
Yes, but as far as I know, the Mede empire made no real gains in piecing back the Empire.


0.o

The Septim Empire was gone. It was done and dead. There were bandits all over Cyrodiil operating freely, calling themselves kings and the Empire was powerless to stop them. The Elder Council controlled the IC itself, but barely anything else. Titus Mede ended up building up his own force, took the Imperial City, then reunited the rest of Cyrodiil.

He then went on to defend Orsinium from the now-independant Redguards and Breton, and eventually brought Skyrim, High Rock and Hammerfell back into the Empire. One of his decendants then likely brought Morrowind back, too, when the Argonians abandoned the place.

The Medes made huge gains in piecing the Empire back together again, I'm not sure how you can say they didn't.
---
Maester Luwin paying the Iron Price.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m45601wPKE1qezjc1o1_500.gif
#78Nova EX(Topic Creator)Posted 11/27/2012 6:25:11 AM
Ajd_King posted...

0.o

The Septim Empire was gone. It was done and dead. There were bandits all over Cyrodiil operating freely, calling themselves kings and the Empire was powerless to stop them. The Elder Council controlled the IC itself, but barely anything else. Titus Mede ended up building up his own force, took the Imperial City, then reunited the rest of Cyrodiil.

He then went on to defend Orsinium from the now-independant Redguards and Breton, and eventually brought Skyrim, High Rock and Hammerfell back into the Empire. One of his decendants then likely brought Morrowind back, too, when the Argonians abandoned the place.

The Medes made huge gains in piecing the Empire back together again, I'm not sure how you can say they didn't.


Well I stand corrected about the Cyrodiil part and youre right I remember reading that.

But it still doesnt change things that the current Empire is Cyrodiil, Skyrim, and High Rock, yes?

You would have to show me some documentation about Morrowind though, not saying youre wrong, I just never remembered reading about Morrowind re-joining the Empire. I thought they were kinda left to running themselves in Mournhold, neither pro nor anti Empire, just kind of trying to maintain themselves.
---
GT: GhostyLasers
Its not about strength or power, you gotta be fluid, you have to be like water.
#79Ajd_KingPosted 11/27/2012 6:31:15 AM(edited)
Nova EX posted...
You would have to show me some documentation about Morrowind though, not saying youre wrong, I just never remembered reading about Morrowind re-joining the Empire. I thought they were kinda left to running themselves in Mournhold, neither pro nor anti Empire, just kind of trying to maintain themselves.


Actually you're likely right. I misremembered some guard dialogue in Riften. When you take it over on the Imperial side, they talk about using Riften as a staging ground to reclaim Morrowind. So, yeah, wrong about that, I thought they talked about putting down any possible Morrowind rebellion.

Anyway, my post was largely in regards to your comment about the Medes doing little to reforge the Empire, not about it being a smaller/weaker version of the late Septim one.
---
Maester Luwin paying the Iron Price.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m45601wPKE1qezjc1o1_500.gif
#80Samaellives91Posted 11/27/2012 6:45:30 AM
Grenpa posted...
I sided with the Empire, the empire doesn't want the Thalmor doing what they're doing, but the Thalmor DESTROYED them, they basically said "If you don't surrender to us, we'll completely wipe out what's left of your Empire". The Empire had to choice but to agree to the Thalmors terms, or be completely destroyed. To me, it seems like the Empire agreed just to save itself, and gain strength to fight the Thalmor. Ulfrics just a scumbag who wants power, and uses what's happening in order to achieve what he wants. It seemed to me if you sided with him you were delivering power to him.
tl;dr: The Empires just trying to buy time and Ulfrics a power hungry racist.


(Spoilers)
But that's the thing. The great war ended in a stalemate. Both the Dominion and the Empire had taken so many casualties, that the Dominion probably would not of been able to destroy the Empire. The Emperor fundamentally is a fool, and in my mind doesn't seem to be much of a military leader, heck he even LETS you kill him when your with the Brotherhood, rather than fight. It's as if he knows that he did the wrong thing and wished to die with dignity. He effectively doomed the Empire.
---
I am a person. But am I Human? That's still up for debate.