If you could make any NPC High King, who would you pick?

#81INFRARED PYTHONPosted 12/3/2012 8:56:05 PM
RebelElite791 posted...
INFRARED PYTHON posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
I would understand the need to worship in secret while my Empire regained the power to crush the elven bastards, yes.

People who are loud and proud about religion are disturbing on many levels.


There's also no evidence of that in the game either. All we see is Thalmor boot licking at the highest degree from the empire. The Battleborns show that pretty clearly.


Logic. The empire agreed to the WGC to give themselves time to rebuild. You think they're just sitting around picking their ass? And no, agreeing to a treaty =/= "boot licking". Nobody in the Empire likes the Dominion.


Snitching= Bootlicking. Look at the Thalmor Embassy during that mission, nothing but ass kissing there and with no hidden hostility either. People like Erikur would have the Elves move right in if the gold kept flowing.

And claiming it's logical doesn't make it any more proof than me just saying whatever I think they should do next either. It's the optimal outcome, but there's still nothing to support it. They're obviously not doing a great job of rebuilding trying to enforce the concordat in skyrim and the emperor is off enjoying weddings.
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#82Sab_LiathPosted 12/3/2012 8:56:44 PM
The truth is neither the Empire or the Stormcloaks are exactly in the best position to fight the Thalmor. The way I see the outcomes of the Civil War go like this:

Imperial Victory: the Stormcloaks are defeated, and Skyrim stays with the Empire. However, if nothing is done, the Empire will become nothing but a vassal state to the Aldmeri Dominion.

Stormcloak Victory: the Empire is driven out of Skyrim, and it becomes an independant state... but likely only briefly. The Thalmor, who had been waiting in the shadows, spring thier full might upon the now independant Skyrim. Ulfric attempts to mount a defence, but with a large portion of Skyrim's population dead or injured in the Civil war, Ulfirc's forces would likely be trampled into the ground.

Truce: A peace treaty is signed, and Skyrim stays with the Empire, and least partially. If it lasts, then the Imperial Leigion and the Stormcloaks could potentally combine forces against the Thalmor. (Not as unlikely as it sounds Ulfric is a former Leigionarre, and is capable of listening to reason). Then again, this is only possible if the peace can be sustained long enough.
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#83JimmyFraskaPosted 12/3/2012 9:27:00 PM
Malzel posted...
Nazeem


Thus barring the peoples of Skyrim from the Cloud District forever.
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#84clone11Posted 12/3/2012 9:30:08 PM
Sanguine, obviously.
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"You persist too long after your own defeat. Come then, warrior. Have your resolution."
#85zeroboboPosted 12/3/2012 9:33:20 PM
Bigj089 posted...
zerobobo posted...
Bigj089 posted...
zerobobo posted...
according to rebel, oppressive laws banning and outlawing a widespread religion under punishment of torture and death isn't a big deal as long as its not super heavily enforced.

good to know he'll allow his civil rights to be crushed as long as they're slow and gentle about it.


Yeah better to make a massive fuss so they move in and crack down on the law and kill a bunch of people instead of keeping it secret until you take care of the enemy.


yeah, like making a deal with your government to allow the open worship of talos if they retake a city.
i mean the empire are good guys right? they wouldnt lie and hand you over to the enemy after reclaiming their city for them would they? they need that silver!


Isnt that the same guy that made an oath to use the Voice as a means peace then turned his back on his oath? Then slaughtered nearly everyone in the Markarth, not just the Reachmen? Then continued to kill his own king using the Voice because he knew he would win the fight and it would open up the seat of the High King? Even though said king would have sided with him?

Also wasn't the Jarl of Markarth the one that promised Ulfric the right to worship Talos openly? The Empire just agreed with it later until the Dominion started pressuring them about it.


he trained with the greybeards, but theres no oath. where the hell is there an oath for training with the greybeards?
theres a philosphy behind it, and obviously he didn't agree with that, but they still trained him.

also, he stopped his training as a greybeard to go fight in the great war, ya know, to save the empire.
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#86RikiazPosted 12/3/2012 9:35:22 PM
SushiSquid posted...
INFRARED PYTHON posted...
Ulfric Stormcloak, a true Nord Hero and the only rightful heir to the High Throne.



Yeah that's right, I said it.




inb4thalmoragent


Anyone who read this:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

And got "lol ulfirc werks 4 da thalmor" has the reading comprehension of a four-year-old. It surprises me each time someone claims he was a Thalmor agent. Ulfric hates the Aldmeri Dominion.


Ulfric was in a war against the Aldmeri Dominion. After being captured, he was brutally tortured, but still resisted giving any information for very long. By the time they finally got him to say anything, it no longer mattered. In order to screw with him, they told him he'd been very helpful anyway, then they let him escape, hoping to use him later. After this he returned to Skyrim, where the Reachmen had taken over the city of Markarth, killing the nord inhabitants and driving the rest out of the Reach. Ulfric was promised that if he dutifully recaptured the city, he'd be allowed to still worship Talos, even though this was now banned by the treaty the weakened Empire signed. Remember that the Empire signed the treaty in order to buy time, even though they had won the recent battle and crushed most of the Dominion forces in the Cyrodiil area. They didn't just sell-out Talos, though. They also betrayed Hammerfell, which in disgust left the Empire and continued to fight the Dominion, a fight they ended up winning even alone.

Oh, and then they betrayed Ulfric. After taking Markarth back for Skyrim (and thus the Empire), Ulfric was not allowed to worship Talos. In quite the opposite move, he was instead arrested for Talos worship to appease the Thalmor. After release, he returned to Windhelm to find his father had died while he was gone and he was now the jarl. At some point later he apparently pleaded in the High King's court for Skyrim to leave the Empire. Although the High King was actually impressed with him, he didn't give an answer quickly enough, so when Ulfric came back, he challenged the King to one-on-one combat for his throne. Technically this is old Skyrim tradition and was legal, but hadn't been traditionally done for like two thousand years. Upon killing the High King, he fled back to Windhelm and was captured on the way, which is where the game begins.

It's also where we get back to people thinking Ulfric is working for the Thalmor. He isn't intentionally. A civil war in Skyrim weakens the Empire, which the Dominion likes. They don't want either side to win, though. I'd argue that a liberated Skyrim would be the better outcome of the war, but either side winning hurts the Thalmor. One side hasn't repeatedly sold its honor, though.


TL;DR: I'd stick Ulfric on the throne. He's brash, overly dramatic, and manipulative, but he's also an excellent leader and a powerful general. He's the man Skyrim needs.


Thank you. Someone who gets it.
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#87jrr18Posted 12/3/2012 9:38:50 PM
Rikiaz posted...
SushiSquid posted...
INFRARED PYTHON posted...
Ulfric Stormcloak, a true Nord Hero and the only rightful heir to the High Throne.



Yeah that's right, I said it.




inb4thalmoragent


Anyone who read this:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

And got "lol ulfirc werks 4 da thalmor" has the reading comprehension of a four-year-old. It surprises me each time someone claims he was a Thalmor agent. Ulfric hates the Aldmeri Dominion.


Ulfric was in a war against the Aldmeri Dominion. After being captured, he was brutally tortured, but still resisted giving any information for very long. By the time they finally got him to say anything, it no longer mattered. In order to screw with him, they told him he'd been very helpful anyway, then they let him escape, hoping to use him later. After this he returned to Skyrim, where the Reachmen had taken over the city of Markarth, killing the nord inhabitants and driving the rest out of the Reach. Ulfric was promised that if he dutifully recaptured the city, he'd be allowed to still worship Talos, even though this was now banned by the treaty the weakened Empire signed. Remember that the Empire signed the treaty in order to buy time, even though they had won the recent battle and crushed most of the Dominion forces in the Cyrodiil area. They didn't just sell-out Talos, though. They also betrayed Hammerfell, which in disgust left the Empire and continued to fight the Dominion, a fight they ended up winning even alone.

Oh, and then they betrayed Ulfric. After taking Markarth back for Skyrim (and thus the Empire), Ulfric was not allowed to worship Talos. In quite the opposite move, he was instead arrested for Talos worship to appease the Thalmor. After release, he returned to Windhelm to find his father had died while he was gone and he was now the jarl. At some point later he apparently pleaded in the High King's court for Skyrim to leave the Empire. Although the High King was actually impressed with him, he didn't give an answer quickly enough, so when Ulfric came back, he challenged the King to one-on-one combat for his throne. Technically this is old Skyrim tradition and was legal, but hadn't been traditionally done for like two thousand years. Upon killing the High King, he fled back to Windhelm and was captured on the way, which is where the game begins.

It's also where we get back to people thinking Ulfric is working for the Thalmor. He isn't intentionally. A civil war in Skyrim weakens the Empire, which the Dominion likes. They don't want either side to win, though. I'd argue that a liberated Skyrim would be the better outcome of the war, but either side winning hurts the Thalmor. One side hasn't repeatedly sold its honor, though.


TL;DR: I'd stick Ulfric on the throne. He's brash, overly dramatic, and manipulative, but he's also an excellent leader and a powerful general. He's the man Skyrim needs.


Thank you. Someone who gets it.


His rule will weaken skyrim and allow GOBLIN to take over tamrile. Vote for ulric this I command.
Yours truly
Goblin Commander
---
I am goblin commander! Goblin!
jrr101
#88Fade_ChokesPosted 12/3/2012 9:48:42 PM
zerobobo posted...
Bigj089 posted...
zerobobo posted...
Bigj089 posted...
zerobobo posted...
according to rebel, oppressive laws banning and outlawing a widespread religion under punishment of torture and death isn't a big deal as long as its not super heavily enforced.

good to know he'll allow his civil rights to be crushed as long as they're slow and gentle about it.


Yeah better to make a massive fuss so they move in and crack down on the law and kill a bunch of people instead of keeping it secret until you take care of the enemy.


yeah, like making a deal with your government to allow the open worship of talos if they retake a city.
i mean the empire are good guys right? they wouldnt lie and hand you over to the enemy after reclaiming their city for them would they? they need that silver!


Isnt that the same guy that made an oath to use the Voice as a means peace then turned his back on his oath? Then slaughtered nearly everyone in the Markarth, not just the Reachmen? Then continued to kill his own king using the Voice because he knew he would win the fight and it would open up the seat of the High King? Even though said king would have sided with him?

Also wasn't the Jarl of Markarth the one that promised Ulfric the right to worship Talos openly? The Empire just agreed with it later until the Dominion started pressuring them about it.


he trained with the greybeards, but theres no oath. where the hell is there an oath for training with the greybeards?
theres a philosphy behind it, and obviously he didn't agree with that, but they still trained him.

also, he stopped his training as a greybeard to go fight in the great war, ya know, to save the empire.




People love to throw The Way of The Voice in against Ulfric even though he used it exactly like the dragonborn does. First against the elves in the great war then again against the Forsworn to free Markarth after the Jarl begged for help and the empire ignored him.

There are multiple accounts of the battle but the NPCs that are still in Markarth speak nothing but praises so I'm not so sure about the validity of that one book that states otherwise.

And once again, the way of the voice is a philosophy. Some people honestly belief it's the rulebook that comes with the thu'um. The Thu'um never had any sort of restriction on it until Jurgen got so demoralized that he decided everyone should become monks to cover the shame of being stomped out at Red Mountain by the Dark Elves.

Prior to this the nords have used shouts in every war they could. Yes, Ulfric doesn't follow the way of the voice, that doesn't however constitute as a crime anywhere.
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#89clone11Posted 12/3/2012 9:51:12 PM
jrr18 posted...
Rikiaz posted...
SushiSquid posted...
INFRARED PYTHON posted...
Ulfric Stormcloak, a true Nord Hero and the only rightful heir to the High Throne.



Yeah that's right, I said it.




inb4thalmoragent


Anyone who read this:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

And got "lol ulfirc werks 4 da thalmor" has the reading comprehension of a four-year-old. It surprises me each time someone claims he was a Thalmor agent. Ulfric hates the Aldmeri Dominion.


Ulfric was in a war against the Aldmeri Dominion. After being captured, he was brutally tortured, but still resisted giving any information for very long. By the time they finally got him to say anything, it no longer mattered. In order to screw with him, they told him he'd been very helpful anyway, then they let him escape, hoping to use him later. After this he returned to Skyrim, where the Reachmen had taken over the city of Markarth, killing the nord inhabitants and driving the rest out of the Reach. Ulfric was promised that if he dutifully recaptured the city, he'd be allowed to still worship Talos, even though this was now banned by the treaty the weakened Empire signed. Remember that the Empire signed the treaty in order to buy time, even though they had won the recent battle and crushed most of the Dominion forces in the Cyrodiil area. They didn't just sell-out Talos, though. They also betrayed Hammerfell, which in disgust left the Empire and continued to fight the Dominion, a fight they ended up winning even alone.

Oh, and then they betrayed Ulfric. After taking Markarth back for Skyrim (and thus the Empire), Ulfric was not allowed to worship Talos. In quite the opposite move, he was instead arrested for Talos worship to appease the Thalmor. After release, he returned to Windhelm to find his father had died while he was gone and he was now the jarl. At some point later he apparently pleaded in the High King's court for Skyrim to leave the Empire. Although the High King was actually impressed with him, he didn't give an answer quickly enough, so when Ulfric came back, he challenged the King to one-on-one combat for his throne. Technically this is old Skyrim tradition and was legal, but hadn't been traditionally done for like two thousand years. Upon killing the High King, he fled back to Windhelm and was captured on the way, which is where the game begins.

It's also where we get back to people thinking Ulfric is working for the Thalmor. He isn't intentionally. A civil war in Skyrim weakens the Empire, which the Dominion likes. They don't want either side to win, though. I'd argue that a liberated Skyrim would be the better outcome of the war, but either side winning hurts the Thalmor. One side hasn't repeatedly sold its honor, though.


TL;DR: I'd stick Ulfric on the throne. He's brash, overly dramatic, and manipulative, but he's also an excellent leader and a powerful general. He's the man Skyrim needs.


Thank you. Someone who gets it.


His rule will weaken skyrim and allow GOBLIN to take over tamrile. Vote for ulric this I command.
Yours truly
Goblin Commander


Can I call you Kiki-Jiki?
---
"You persist too long after your own defeat. Come then, warrior. Have your resolution."
#90jrr18Posted 12/3/2012 9:52:15 PM
clone11 posted...
jrr18 posted...
Rikiaz posted...
SushiSquid posted...
INFRARED PYTHON posted...
Ulfric Stormcloak, a true Nord Hero and the only rightful heir to the High Throne.



Yeah that's right, I said it.




inb4thalmoragent


Anyone who read this:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

And got "lol ulfirc werks 4 da thalmor" has the reading comprehension of a four-year-old. It surprises me each time someone claims he was a Thalmor agent. Ulfric hates the Aldmeri Dominion.


Ulfric was in a war against the Aldmeri Dominion. After being captured, he was brutally tortured, but still resisted giving any information for very long. By the time they finally got him to say anything, it no longer mattered. In order to screw with him, they told him he'd been very helpful anyway, then they let him escape, hoping to use him later. After this he returned to Skyrim, where the Reachmen had taken over the city of Markarth, killing the nord inhabitants and driving the rest out of the Reach. Ulfric was promised that if he dutifully recaptured the city, he'd be allowed to still worship Talos, even though this was now banned by the treaty the weakened Empire signed. Remember that the Empire signed the treaty in order to buy time, even though they had won the recent battle and crushed most of the Dominion forces in the Cyrodiil area. They didn't just sell-out Talos, though. They also betrayed Hammerfell, which in disgust left the Empire and continued to fight the Dominion, a fight they ended up winning even alone.

Oh, and then they betrayed Ulfric. After taking Markarth back for Skyrim (and thus the Empire), Ulfric was not allowed to worship Talos. In quite the opposite move, he was instead arrested for Talos worship to appease the Thalmor. After release, he returned to Windhelm to find his father had died while he was gone and he was now the jarl. At some point later he apparently pleaded in the High King's court for Skyrim to leave the Empire. Although the High King was actually impressed with him, he didn't give an answer quickly enough, so when Ulfric came back, he challenged the King to one-on-one combat for his throne. Technically this is old Skyrim tradition and was legal, but hadn't been traditionally done for like two thousand years. Upon killing the High King, he fled back to Windhelm and was captured on the way, which is where the game begins.

It's also where we get back to people thinking Ulfric is working for the Thalmor. He isn't intentionally. A civil war in Skyrim weakens the Empire, which the Dominion likes. They don't want either side to win, though. I'd argue that a liberated Skyrim would be the better outcome of the war, but either side winning hurts the Thalmor. One side hasn't repeatedly sold its honor, though.


TL;DR: I'd stick Ulfric on the throne. He's brash, overly dramatic, and manipulative, but he's also an excellent leader and a powerful general. He's the man Skyrim needs.


Thank you. Someone who gets it.


His rule will weaken skyrim and allow GOBLIN to take over tamrile. Vote for ulric this I command.
Yours truly
Goblin Commander


Can I call you Kiki-Jiki?


What? also no no you can't
---
I am goblin commander! Goblin!
jrr101