Is worshiping Talos kind of like worshiping Jesus?

#311Final LegionPosted 12/15/2012 9:56:06 PM
gametime74 posted...
Wow, Final Legion, I agree with some of your points, but you come off as such as an elitist.

Neither the Bible nor modern science will completely have all the answers. These arguments will always come to a stalemate and the vast majority of the time, no opinions will be changed. I am a science-minded person by all accounts but I also believe there are some things that humans are incapable of understanding. That doesn't imply that we should stop trying or that I believe all the stuff in the Bible, but simply that even believers in the Bible can have valid rationale.


I'm not an elitist; rather, I'm just brutally honest. Science evolves, religion does not. That's the long and short of it.
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Poison Clan Rocks The World.
#312Final LegionPosted 12/15/2012 10:00:48 PM
duddddeeeeee16 posted...


Besides historical records and what not, the Bible is the only "real" document of any of this. Some people say the Bible is complete trash, but, as a writer, I can't honestly believe such a cohesive story was written across 2,000 years by 66 different writers. To me, there's something more there than just man.


Cohesive? You must have a very loose definition for cohesive.

As for everything else, it's about experiencing it. That's the part you can't really explain to people. But, people can see life changes (I've seen plenty). People can discount Christians' beliefs, but they can't take away their testimonies.


I can't say that your personal experience or spiritual epiphany didn't happen to you, but I can definitely say that such things are not substantial of the existence of any deity.

Until the day comes where all this strife and frustration is done, I will gladly debate with those who don't believe as a way to strengthen my own faith. After 21 years, I've not once been met with a question I wasn't able to answer or find an answer for later.


Really? I have a question for you: why is that the Bible takes such pains to say how awful homosexuality is but never once says how awful slavery is?
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Poison Clan Rocks The World.
#313gametime74Posted 12/15/2012 10:10:44 PM
Final Legion posted...
gametime74 posted...
Wow, Final Legion, I agree with some of your points, but you come off as such as an elitist.

Neither the Bible nor modern science will completely have all the answers. These arguments will always come to a stalemate and the vast majority of the time, no opinions will be changed. I am a science-minded person by all accounts but I also believe there are some things that humans are incapable of understanding. That doesn't imply that we should stop trying or that I believe all the stuff in the Bible, but simply that even believers in the Bible can have valid rationale.


I'm not an elitist; rather, I'm just brutally honest. Science evolves, religion does not. That's the long and short of it.


I think we're all well aware of this. Not a very revealing statement considering the driving force behind the science argument is appropriately named evolution.

The long and the short of it is that neither you, me, or anybody else can completely disprove what Christians believe. We can scream how ridiculous some of it may be all we want, but the fact is, you don't have all the answers. There's really no reason to bust people's balls over what they believe....unless, of course, they're trying to shove their religion down your throat. I admittedly haven't read the entire thread.

P.s. "brutally honest" is just an excuse to be an ass in most cases.
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#314duddddeeeeee16Posted 12/15/2012 11:31:21 PM
Final Legion posted...
duddddeeeeee16 posted...


Besides historical records and what not, the Bible is the only "real" document of any of this. Some people say the Bible is complete trash, but, as a writer, I can't honestly believe such a cohesive story was written across 2,000 years by 66 different writers. To me, there's something more there than just man.


Cohesive? You must have a very loose definition for cohesive.

As for everything else, it's about experiencing it. That's the part you can't really explain to people. But, people can see life changes (I've seen plenty). People can discount Christians' beliefs, but they can't take away their testimonies.


I can't say that your personal experience or spiritual epiphany didn't happen to you, but I can definitely say that such things are not substantial of the existence of any deity.

Until the day comes where all this strife and frustration is done, I will gladly debate with those who don't believe as a way to strengthen my own faith. After 21 years, I've not once been met with a question I wasn't able to answer or find an answer for later.


Really? I have a question for you: why is that the Bible takes such pains to say how awful homosexuality is but never once says how awful slavery is?


You know, the Bible barely says anything about homosexuality. It mentions it's a sin, but it also says lying is a sin. And according to the Bible, one sin is the same as any other. So, to comment on this point, modern-day Christians are the idiots who have made homosexuality so demonized -- and I'm truly sorry for that. there's no reason to single something as trivial as that out.

unfortunately, slavery in the Bible is a much more complicated topic (and no, I'm not just using that as a scapegoat.) It never outright says "don't own other men," but it says countless times in the New Testament to love one another and treat others as you would yourself. In a nutshell, the Ten Commandments were sort of nullified and replaced with the commandment Jesus preached: love one another. He said to do that above all else.

Now, I don't know about you, but slavery does not exemplify love in any way. My ancestors owned slaves, and it makes me sick. If you need more information, read up on the story in Exodus.

And we probably do have two very different definitions of cohesive. Mine refers to the Bible finishing the story it started with in the Old Testament. There's more I can say, but tying the Old and New Testaments together ain't no easy task for a single man, let alone that many over that long a period. You are entitled to your opinions.

In the end, I believe in this and you probably don't. The last thing I'd want is to force you to believe. All I'd like to do is represent things as clearly and accurately as possible. People say religion is outdated and obsolete, but I think the people who believe in it are too afraid to apply it to this ever-changing life. It's not impossible.

One more question: If Jesus' sole command was for me to love people to the best of my ability, why would you be so opposed to me living that command out in my life? That seems asinine.
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You're awesome. Yes, you. I don't care what you've done or what you've said to people. You're awesome. God thinks so too.
Hebrews 12:11-13
#315Final LegionPosted 12/15/2012 11:37:00 PM
gametime74 posted...


I think we're all well aware of this. Not a very revealing statement considering the driving force behind the science argument is appropriately named evolution.


If you're so aware of it, why did I have to tell you?

The long and the short of it is that neither you, me, or anybody else can completely disprove what Christians believe. We can scream how ridiculous some of it may be all we want, but the fact is, you don't have all the answers. There's really no reason to bust people's balls over what they believe....unless, of course, they're trying to shove their religion down your throat. I admittedly haven't read the entire thread.


I wasn't busting anything other than the absurd notion that religious belief equates to absolute fact. As far disproving anything goes, the point is moot. The onus is not on me to disprove anything but rather on the one who insists that what he has constitutes proof.

P.s. "brutally honest" is just an excuse to be an ass in most cases.


I've heard that before...mostly from people who prefer keeping their heads in the sand where the truth can't bother them.
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Poison Clan Rocks The World.
#316Cosmic_DiabeticPosted 12/15/2012 11:41:48 PM
what about Budha. or Ghandi. or the Dalai Lama? Muhammad. I could go on for days. What made you objectify only Jesus?
#317duddddeeeeee16Posted 12/15/2012 11:54:29 PM
Cosmic_Diabetic posted...
what about Budha. or Ghandi. or the Dalai Lama? Muhammad. I could go on for days. What made you objectify only Jesus?


I believe the connection was made because the two have similarities: both sacrificed themselves to save mankind, both were man and God, both are seated in "Paradise," etc.

I'm not saying the others wouldn't work. I simply see this as a clearer comparison.

PS: Lore buffs, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on anything.
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You're awesome. Yes, you. I don't care what you've done or what you've said to people. You're awesome. God thinks so too.
Hebrews 12:11-13
#318duddddeeeeee16Posted 12/15/2012 11:56:01 PM
And sorry for a double post, but Final Legion, I really want to hear back from you. And that's being sincere, not just in hopes of "winning" the debate. As I said, I love talking with people about these topics.
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You're awesome. Yes, you. I don't care what you've done or what you've said to people. You're awesome. God thinks so too.
Hebrews 12:11-13
#319JohnRyan1228Posted 12/15/2012 11:57:18 PM
oh boy
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"oh i comprehended it fine! i just didnt read it!"- zerobobo
#320Final LegionPosted 12/16/2012 12:00:04 AM
duddddeeeeee16 posted...


You know, the Bible barely says anything about homosexuality. It mentions it's a sin, but it also says lying is a sin. And according to the Bible, one sin is the same as any other. So, to comment on this point, modern-day Christians are the idiots who have made homosexuality so demonized -- and I'm truly sorry for that. there's no reason to single something as trivial as that out.


Actually, the Bible does a good job of demonizing homosexuality all by itself. The Bible says quite clearly in the book of Leviticus that homosexuals are considered abominations and that if two man lay with one another, they should both be put to death.

The Bible, in Deutoromony, Kings and Romans, keeps enforcing the idea of how awful homosexuality is. Homosexuality is not trivial to "God" it seems or maybe it wasn't trivial to the humans who wrote the Bible because, for the life of me, I can't figure out why an omnipotent, omniscient and all-loving entity would even care.

unfortunately, slavery in the Bible is a much more complicated topic (and no, I'm not just using that as a scapegoat.) It never outright says "don't own other men," but it says countless times in the New Testament to love one another and treat others as you would yourself. In a nutshell, the Ten Commandments were sort of nullified and replaced with the commandment Jesus preached: love one another. He said to do that above all else.


Jesus had this to say:

Matthew 22:37-40 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

So, before anything else, we're to love "God". What is so complicated about slavery? The Bible acknowledges slavery and even permits it. Could be because the humans who wrote the Bible knew that people weren't going to so readily relinquish this right, given the culture of the time?

Now, I don't know about you, but slavery does not exemplify love in any way. My ancestors owned slaves, and it makes me sick.


And that begs the question again: if "God" is so about love, why didn't he command that the practice of slavery cease?

And we probably do have two very different definitions of cohesive. Mine refers to the Bible finishing the story it started with in the Old Testament. There's more I can say, but tying the Old and New Testaments together ain't no easy task for a single man, let alone that many over that long a period. You are entitled to your opinions.


If the OT and the NT had some sort of logical bridging and continuation, I might agree.

In the end, I believe in this and you probably don't. The last thing I'd want is to force you to believe. All I'd like to do is represent things as clearly and accurately as possible. People say religion is outdated and obsolete, but I think the people who believe in it are too afraid to apply it to this ever-changing life. It's not impossible.


The only way to accomplish that is to revise your religion to fit the modern world. Would you really treat women today the way the Bible advocates? Would you own slaves? Would you stone witches? There are definitely facets of every religion that is outdated and obsolete.

If the only thing Jesus said to do was to love other humans to the best of your ability because that's the only thing that's important, I'd agree. Unfortunately, that is not the case.
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Poison Clan Rocks The World.