What, exactly, is wrong with casual gamers?

#141Fate_AssassinPosted 12/13/2012 6:44:01 PM
j4ckkn1fe posted...
Fate_Assassin posted...
j4ckkn1fe posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
Is this jackknife clown trolling?

"a game is hardcore if you have to use cookie cutter builds or you can do speedruns"?

Lolwat?


I was giving examples of what hardcore gamers did back then and differences to skyrim. There is nothing hardcore gamers can do in skyrim absolutely nothing besides a naked run on master I guess but that holds true for any game. Morrowind was hardcore because it catered to the hardcore audience. There is a reason why 80% of the time when Morrowind is brought up on the skyrim board that everyone says its ****. The skyrim board is home to casuals that disliked the game because you had to read quests ZOMG and miss attacks the first couple lvls.....I can tell you that Morrowind is not **** far from it at least in its time now although I would have to say looking back it was above average.


There is plenty of things for a "hardcore" gamer to. They just have to use their brains now. If you want have a "hardcore" mode do it yourself. "Hardcore" gamers say that they don't like how games were "dumb down" and have restrictions removed from them. Well you can make them yourself. People b***h about fast travel and no guild restrictions well no one is forcing you to use fast travel, and no one is forcing you to do everything in the game.



Well that is what I was referring to. I don't feel like it's worth it to do it myself on a game like skyrim where even if I do manage to do it. I will most likely not get as much satisfaction as I would like. My only gripe is that now instead of developers making games inherently difficult they make them easy to abroad to the wider audience. I only dislike the casuals who act like they are BA at the games out right now.

To answer the previous question. The difference in casual and hardcore gamers is obvious. The casual will most likely pick up the game and just play it for a few mins/hrs. A hardcore gamer on the other hand will most likely max the difficulty and theorycraft on min/maxing. If there is multiplayer the casual will just search for a game rather than a hardcore gamer who will try and top the leaderboards and be the best.


The people who act BA can also be hardcore too. My one problem with what you said is that you want the game to make things difficult for you. People complain that the game holds there hand too much but they want restriction placed on the way they can play which is a form of hand holding. That may work for other games, but with the way the set the Elder Scrolls up it is more like you are viewing events that are happening in the game world.

Now to how you defined casual and hardcore seems kinda off to me. Mostly because the first and main focus of video games is to let people have fun. Now someone might be hardcore but still enjoy just playing around and not caring about stats.Also if someone is a math wiz they might be good at the min/maxing theorycraft but will still be considered casual.
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http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/615803-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/62287165 - restored faith in humanity.
1/14/2013, shipment date
#142CRK44Posted 12/13/2012 6:44:25 PM
Read the first page of this, had a multiple counterpoints to the arguments.

This topic is about Casual Gamers vs "Hardcore" Gamers.

these titles aren't even clear. Whos to say who is casual or not? The gamer themselves.

And both terms are used in an elitist way. Casual gamers say it more in public. Hardcore gamers say it on video game forums and message boards.

I identify myself as a hardocore gamer. I commit to games (especially single player games with long term commitment like Skyrim and Minecraft) way more than my friends. Just because I don't strive for every achievement or try to make the game as hard as possible, constantly restarting, raging, etc, doesn't mean that I am casual. I thought these were VIDEO GAMES and we were GAMERS, not competitors.
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Jarl Ballin'
#143gunsndroses(Topic Creator)Posted 12/13/2012 6:47:16 PM
Everybody seems to be in agreement that the problem is companies streamlining their games.

While I see why there would be disappointment here, I actually don't blame the companies. If "casuals" want to get in on these great franchises, then they should be able to.

Besides, I don't think that this "dumbing down" is as severe as some of you would describe. Skyrim is profoundly deep, and I don't know why any of you think it is dumbed down, for example.
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#144Ajd_KingPosted 12/13/2012 6:47:58 PM
gunsndroses posted...
Everybody seems to be in agreement that the problem is companies streamlining their games.

While I see why there would be disappointment here, I actually don't blame the companies. If "casuals" want to get in on these great franchises, then they should be able to.

Besides, I don't think that this "dumbing down" is as severe as some of you would describe. Skyrim is profoundly deep, and I don't know why any of you think it is dumbed down, for example.


In what way?
#145XekuPosted 12/13/2012 6:52:50 PM

There is plenty of things for a "hardcore" gamer to. They just have to use their brains now. If you want have a "hardcore" mode do it yourself. "Hardcore" gamers say that they don't like how games were "dumb down" and have restrictions removed from them. Well you can make them yourself. People b***h about fast travel and no guild restrictions well no one is forcing you to use fast travel, and no one is forcing you to do everything in the game.


Fate_Assassin - This is such a good point...glad you raised it.

I've been gaming for well over 30 years, and it amazes me how so many contemporary gamers that profess to be "hardcore", seem to resist playing outside the rules, so to speak. I am more inclined to label such players as "purist" rather than hardcore - they seem to lack any sense of adventure, are risk-adverse, and prefer to operate within a rigid framework of do's and do-nots (as defined by the developer-gods) - not that there is necessarily anything wrong with this...

You were only limited by your own creativity - that's how we used to approach things back in the day when gaming was largely a social event (arcades) - beat a score, or set a time, or group vs. group (total scores) - create your own challenge. Games were simpler back then (largely due to technological limitations), but this didn't make anything any less "hardcore" or "casual" (honestly, these terms were not even relevant). Considering how mainstream gaming in general was during my childhood (heck, even D&D table-top RPG's weren't restricted to the realm of geekdom - it was a Saturday morning cartoon series, for god's sake), these concepts were foreign.

As I got older, friends and I used to mod systems to play imports, and learned to mod game files just to see how things ticked (this was still the cartridge era mind you). Did this make me more hardcore than others? No, not really - wasn't all that unusual back then, depending on where you lived. There were also devices for this sort of thing (no, not the game genie, though that thing was fun as well).

This also raises the issue of cheating/glitching/modding etc. - so many contemporary "hardcore" gamers seem to thumb their noses at these activities.
In the 80's, this was half the fun. Gaming mags (when these things were still printed on paper, heh) had sections devoted to this sort of thing (some focused on it).

I'm not offended by these comments or opinions mind you, it's just very interesting how these things seem to cycle and shift from one generation to another..
#146j4ckkn1fePosted 12/13/2012 6:53:16 PM
Fate_Assassin posted...

The people who act BA can also be hardcore too. My one problem with what you said is that you want the game to make things difficult for you. People complain that the game holds there hand too much but they want restriction placed on the way they can play which is a form of hand holding. That may work for other games, but with the way the set the Elder Scrolls up it is more like you are viewing events that are happening in the game world.

Now to how you defined casual and hardcore seems kinda off to me. Mostly because the first and main focus of video games is to let people have fun. Now someone might be hardcore but still enjoy just playing around and not caring about stats.Also if someone is a math wiz they might be good at the min/maxing theorycraft but will still be considered casual.




You don't have to be a math wiz to min/max it's like algebra 1 stuff. I do agree though that you could be a math wiz and casual. But if you take the time to do that for every game then I would have to say you would be somewhat hardcore.

Please refer to my previous post on my analogy I feel it clears it up quite well at least for the competitive side. I personally define hardcore players being competitive I never thought of it as just playing the game for a very long time.

Also skyrim is as deep as a pond. At least mechanics wise, story/lore wise it's deep.
#147AkujatuPosted 12/13/2012 6:53:54 PM
gunsndroses posted...

I actually don't blame the companies. If "casuals" want to get in on these great franchises, then they should be able to.


I agree with all of what you said, minus this quoted bit.

I don't think in any way, that it is fair for any sort of dumbing down / nerfing / tweaking / balancing should be happening outside of MMO's or games that are truly based around being around others, or being competitive.

How is it fair that 80% of the player-base should suffer discomfort in-game because of an extremely minute percentage of players?
#148j4ckkn1fePosted 12/13/2012 7:00:59 PM
Akujatu posted...
gunsndroses posted...

I actually don't blame the companies. If "casuals" want to get in on these great franchises, then they should be able to.


I agree with all of what you said, minus this quoted bit.

I don't think in any way, that it is fair for any sort of dumbing down / nerfing / tweaking / balancing should be happening outside of MMO's or games that are truly based around being around others, or being competitive.

How is it fair that 80% of the player-base should suffer discomfort in-game because of an extremely minute percentage of players?


I agree! However, that was not how it was with older games. All the competitive games have moved to PC which saddens me. I grew up with a console instead of windows 95...
#149dj4242Posted 12/13/2012 7:01:28 PM
MC2011 posted...
Games be too easy, yo.

If you actually think Dark Souls was challenging, then lol.


Dark Souls happens to be the hardest game I have played. Mostly it is because I do not have the patience to counter nearly every single attack and study every enemies movement pattern.
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#150gunsndroses(Topic Creator)Posted 12/13/2012 7:02:44 PM
Ajd_King posted...
gunsndroses posted...
Everybody seems to be in agreement that the problem is companies streamlining their games.

While I see why there would be disappointment here, I actually don't blame the companies. If "casuals" want to get in on these great franchises, then they should be able to.

Besides, I don't think that this "dumbing down" is as severe as some of you would describe. Skyrim is profoundly deep, and I don't know why any of you think it is dumbed down, for example.


In what way?


Character customization, gigantic world, *beautiful* world, tons of quests, to name a few.
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I think, therefore I am