What, exactly, is wrong with casual gamers?

#61RebelElite791Posted 12/13/2012 1:33:46 PM
akjomsviking posted...
RebelElite791 posted...

I picked up Morrowind as the first game of its type that I'd played and got right into it. So that argument is stupid.


Then Rebel you have to accept the fact that you are extremely rare as far as gamers go. Even the reviews of the day (as you will remember since you were playing back then) urged gamers not to give up on it due to its sheer size. They also mentioned the fact that it was *so* open to experimentation could be viewed as a fault.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with viewing Morrowind as the pinnacle of gaming, just that it makes you unusual. Just like how some people love the **** out of motorcycles that need to be worked on all the time, and detest bikes that are dumbed down for more casual bikers. Or gun owners that love guns with really big calibers and consider more manageable guns for wimps.

It's not like this industry is unique in trying to find the sweet spot, is all I'm saying.


Also nobody here is saying they should be impossible for new players to get into. We're saying its bad when the game is DUMBED DOWN from previous incarnations or what it should've been just to pull in the Cawadooty crowd.

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Rebel is pretty much a planet, pulling all sorts of moons and satellites his way, among them good, bad, foolish, trollish, and everything else - SeaArrKing
#62clone11Posted 12/13/2012 1:33:49 PM
Nothing is wrong with casual gamers. I find there is more of a problem with self-proclaimed hardcore gamers. Many have this attitude that if you don't take the games as seriously as they do, you don't deserve to play them, or be taken into account by developers when they're making the games.

That's not to say that I don't think some developers might be going too far with pandering to the casual gamer, the addition of multiplayer being added to Mass Effect when it wasn't really needed being a good example.

I really don't like to label myself any kind of gamer though. I just play games, a lot. It's fun. And I find Skyrim to be a good middle-ground. I don't think it's overly casual but I don't think it's overly hardcore either.
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"You persist too long after your own defeat. Come then, warrior. Have your resolution."
#63simonbelmont2Posted 12/13/2012 1:34:45 PM
Panopictonguy posted...
simonbelmont2 posted...
kylekillgannon posted...
Bigj089 posted...
MC2011 posted...
Games be too easy, yo.

If you actually think Dark Souls was challenging, then lol.


Hey, that game was challenging. If you tried to play it like Dynasty Warriors on the easy setting.


Unless you make a build around doing just that.

Once you develop a good Strength build then the game just becomes a less fun Devil May Cry. Crazy bosses and all.


A good pyro flame +15 makes the game a cakewalk too.


The game is challenging is a stupid way. Like bad nes programming challenging...but on purpose. it really bothers me when people say

"Yeah the Ultimate weapon you get through hours of research and hard work makes the game super easy, that's why it was never hard to begin with."

Or

"I've played this game for 1500 hours, after playing it non-stop for 20hrs it became a cakewalk."

Or the best one

"When in use this strategy I looked up online the Game is way to easy."

Most challenging games are challenging when you first play then, not when you've memorized the entire game and learned all kinds of exploits that you use every time you play.


Well, my point is that you can get a Pyro glove at the start of the game. If you pick the Pyromancer class in the character creation screen then the Pyro glove is given to you right away. The game makes that knowledge known to the player in the character creation screen. No special Dark Souls insider knowledge is needed lol.

When I first got DS I picked the Pyromancer as my first character. I didn't know it was a good choice. I just figured having a fireball spell would be a useful tool early on. I was then able to upgrade it to +15 really early too. The merchant who does the upgrades is easy to find and located in an early game area. The bosses you face to get to him are manageable for a new player and not too bad.

I did all that on my first character without too much hassle. Getting a +15 Pyro glove is not an exploit, trick, some special hardcore gamer knowledge or something only discovered after playing for 1500 hours. It is something the player can do really early and that information is made clear and not hidden.

I am just a regular gamer but I found Dark Souls was not too bad difficulty wise. The game did have a few rough spots but I expected that. The point is the player can get quite far in the game with equipment you can find right at the start. A Pyro flame works well and so do weapons like Astora's Straight Sword which can be obtained in the first five minutes and is in plain sight not hidden.

I wonder if you actually played Dark Souls? if you did you would know that the game gives you a Pyro glove at the start.
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Carl Kolchak: You should meet my boss. He'd turn Buddha into a chain smoker.
#64RebelElite791Posted 12/13/2012 1:35:44 PM
clone11 posted...
Nothing is wrong with casual gamers. I find there is more of a problem with self-proclaimed hardcore gamers. Many have this attitude that if you don't take the games as seriously as they do, you don't deserve to play them, or be taken into account by developers when they're making the games.

That's not to say that I don't think some developers might be going too far with pandering to the casual gamer, the addition of multiplayer being added to Mass Effect when it wasn't really needed being a good example.

I really don't like to label myself any kind of gamer though. I just play games, a lot. It's fun. And I find Skyrim to be a good middle-ground. I don't think it's overly casual but I don't think it's overly hardcore either.


Eh, I liked the MP in ME3, though I didnt think I would. I dont feel it took away from the campaign anyways (except perhaps for the war assets part).

I just wish it had pvp :l Then I'd probably play it more often.
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Rebel is pretty much a planet, pulling all sorts of moons and satellites his way, among them good, bad, foolish, trollish, and everything else - SeaArrKing
#65TheBestFallerPosted 12/13/2012 1:40:08 PM
RebelElite791 posted...
Eh, I liked the MP in ME3, though I didnt think I would. I dont feel it took away from the campaign anyways (except perhaps for the war assets part).

I just wish it had pvp :l Then I'd probably play it more often.


I was surprised at how fun it was as well. PvP would be cool, but they'd have to butcher too many powers for them to work on other player characters, I think. Things like Pull or Stasis.
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#66RebelElite791Posted 12/13/2012 1:41:16 PM
TheBestFaller posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
Eh, I liked the MP in ME3, though I didnt think I would. I dont feel it took away from the campaign anyways (except perhaps for the war assets part).

I just wish it had pvp :l Then I'd probably play it more often.


I was surprised at how fun it was as well. PvP would be cool, but they'd have to butcher too many powers for them to work on other player characters, I think. Things like Pull or Stasis.


This is very true. I enjoyed it a lot last spring, I just cant get into it anymore, which I think is often the case after a while when youre playing against the computer.
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Rebel is pretty much a planet, pulling all sorts of moons and satellites his way, among them good, bad, foolish, trollish, and everything else - SeaArrKing
#67clone11Posted 12/13/2012 1:41:56 PM
RebelElite791 posted...
clone11 posted...
Nothing is wrong with casual gamers. I find there is more of a problem with self-proclaimed hardcore gamers. Many have this attitude that if you don't take the games as seriously as they do, you don't deserve to play them, or be taken into account by developers when they're making the games.

That's not to say that I don't think some developers might be going too far with pandering to the casual gamer, the addition of multiplayer being added to Mass Effect when it wasn't really needed being a good example.

I really don't like to label myself any kind of gamer though. I just play games, a lot. It's fun. And I find Skyrim to be a good middle-ground. I don't think it's overly casual but I don't think it's overly hardcore either.


Eh, I liked the MP in ME3, though I didnt think I would. I dont feel it took away from the campaign anyways (except perhaps for the war assets part).

I just wish it had pvp :l Then I'd probably play it more often.


Well, I'm not even saying the MP is bad or anything (haven't actually played it myself, which made my single player experience annoying, since I was affect by my inability to play it, since it was a rental), I'm merely pointing out that it was feature clearly added only for the purpose of drawing in more of the casual crowd, and, at least in my opinion, wasn't really needed.

Honestly, if it worked out and ended up being good, good on them.
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"You persist too long after your own defeat. Come then, warrior. Have your resolution."
#68simonbelmont2Posted 12/13/2012 1:42:20 PM
kylekillgannon posted...
Panopictonguy posted...
The game is challenging is a stupid way. Like bad nes programming challenging...but on purpose. it really bothers me when people say

Most challenging games are challenging when you first play then, not when you've memorized the entire game and learned all kinds of exploits that you use every time you play.


My favorite is when they talk about invincibility frames as if it's some integral game mechanic that everyone knows of when stepping into it. At this point it is indeed an integral gameplay mechanic, because most strategies center on you utilizing it.

But these are things you can't bring up to the fanbase because they'll go crazy and start yelling out buzzwords like "#Yoloswag" and ignorant casual. And begin to throw up detailed explanations how it's only your fault for dying in Sen's Fortress like a dirty casual, even if you never brought up Sen's Fortress in the first place.


I agree, a lot of DS fans talk about some really technical stuff as if it's common knowledge made obvious to players. That stuff is difficult to learn and not common knowledge at all. It's only common if the player is experienced with the game and is part of the community (goes to the game boards etc.) Invincibility frames, dead angles etc lol. A new gamer won't know about any of that stuff.

That is DS in a nutshell though, a game that can be a bit too obscure at times for its own good. I enjoyed the game but the devs made some stuff very obscure. The Crystal Golem at the back of Darkroot Basin is a good example of this. Unfortunately some fans of a game seem unable to handle constructive criticism. That kind of sad behaviour manifests on every Gamefaqs board.
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Carl Kolchak: You should meet my boss. He'd turn Buddha into a chain smoker.
#69R41NB0W-D45HPosted 12/13/2012 1:44:57 PM
simonbelmont2 posted...
That kind of sad behaviour manifests on every Gamefaqs board.


OHH, SO NOW THE GAMEFAQS HATERS COME OUT.
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Breakin' rules since the seventeenth century.
I broke Rule 34. There is no porn of me on the internet.
#70FalosPosted 12/13/2012 1:45:34 PM
Why spend millions of dollars making the next FFVII (in terms of overall reception, not your personal subjective opinion) when you could get the same sales by producing the next bejewled/angrybirds/etc with a week's worth of minimum wage interns?

Hate is actually directed at this discrepancy, not the "casual" of it all. Apple produces perfectly valid (noncasual) hardware but the "branding" is more powerful than Pepsi or McDonalds and the same discrepancy shows in the purchases of their priests.

Buyers. I meant buyers.
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