So who's the most powerful now that Dragonborn is out? CoC, Nerevarine or DB?

#61nathraxhPosted 1/7/2013 1:07:46 AM
Grudgingly, I actually have to concede you might have a point there. It doesn't change the effect of what Sheogorath says in Skyrim, but the argument of "just because I'm the DB, doesn't mean I'm the listener" is what brought it home to me.
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Dwarf shortage.
#62The_Beer_ScotchPosted 1/7/2013 1:36:04 AM
krono069 posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
Going only with what's canonically attributed to each person, Dragonborn by far.

But I'm pretty sure there are one or two of these still open...as usual...


^Really? Man, I'm sorry if that's the case. I used to be a regular on here, daily popping in and posting, but I took a hiatus. I played some other games, talked on those boards, ate a sandwich or two, etc etc. I've been wanting the Dragonborn DLC since December 4th, but moving and life have kept it from me. Well, I FINALLY got it and am deeply enjoying it. So much so, I'm all into Skyrim again. And that's basically why I'm back after all this time. I always knew I'd be back actually. I always come back to Elder Scrolls. Always.

So, in a nutshell, I'm sorry if I do some noob stuff on here. When I was a regular, I was annoyed by some of the repeating topics too.
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http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/615803-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/6511250

Read this, the annoyance is not aimed at you, but at the thought of having to repeat this AGAIN :p
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#63RebelElite791Posted 1/7/2013 1:43:14 AM
The_Beer_Scotch posted...
krono069 posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
Going only with what's canonically attributed to each person, Dragonborn by far.

But I'm pretty sure there are one or two of these still open...as usual...


^Really? Man, I'm sorry if that's the case. I used to be a regular on here, daily popping in and posting, but I took a hiatus. I played some other games, talked on those boards, ate a sandwich or two, etc etc. I've been wanting the Dragonborn DLC since December 4th, but moving and life have kept it from me. Well, I FINALLY got it and am deeply enjoying it. So much so, I'm all into Skyrim again. And that's basically why I'm back after all this time. I always knew I'd be back actually. I always come back to Elder Scrolls. Always.

So, in a nutshell, I'm sorry if I do some noob stuff on here. When I was a regular, I was annoyed by some of the repeating topics too.
__


http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/615803-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/6511250

Read this, the annoyance is not aimed at you, but at the thought of having to repeat this AGAIN :p


Says topic is no longer available for viewing :o
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Rebel is pretty much a planet, pulling all sorts of moons and satellites his way, among them good, bad, foolish, trollish, and everything else - SeaArrKing
#64The_Beer_ScotchPosted 1/7/2013 2:17:13 AM
RebelElite791 posted...
The_Beer_Scotch posted...
krono069 posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
Going only with what's canonically attributed to each person, Dragonborn by far.

But I'm pretty sure there are one or two of these still open...as usual...


^Really? Man, I'm sorry if that's the case. I used to be a regular on here, daily popping in and posting, but I took a hiatus. I played some other games, talked on those boards, ate a sandwich or two, etc etc. I've been wanting the Dragonborn DLC since December 4th, but moving and life have kept it from me. Well, I FINALLY got it and am deeply enjoying it. So much so, I'm all into Skyrim again. And that's basically why I'm back after all this time. I always knew I'd be back actually. I always come back to Elder Scrolls. Always.

So, in a nutshell, I'm sorry if I do some noob stuff on here. When I was a regular, I was annoyed by some of the repeating topics too.
__


http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/615803-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/6511250

Read this, the annoyance is not aimed at you, but at the thought of having to repeat this AGAIN :p


Says topic is no longer available for viewing :o


probably because of my settings, I Have 50 posts per page, just click on page one, plebian! :D
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To be announced
#65ValedictorianXDPosted 1/7/2013 2:40:57 AM(edited)
nathraxh posted...
Can someone explain how the CoC becoming a god isn't canon?

'Cause I'm not getting it.


It's canon. The developers have made it pretty clear in every single game that everything that could be done, was done (with the exception of the Civil War's outcome). The details typically aren't highlighted, however, (like, the manner in which you dispatched any of the Dark Brotherhood targets). If you could become Sheogorath, then it stands to reason that the CoC became Sheogorath and (due to the nature of Sheogorath) he essentially lost his identity. The Sheogorath you know now is the Champion of Cyrodiil + whatever Sheogorath is. It's hard to explain...and that's why he is the Prince of Madness.

Basically, all I'm saying is that the following support the theory that the CoC became Sheogorath:
-Bethesda's Game Design/"TES Tradition"
-Skyrim Dialogue
-Sheogorath's nature
-A majority of the lore community support it (btw, the majority of the lore community is not GFAQs)
-Wes Johnson, Sheo's voice actor, confirmed it (VAs have been wrong in the past but the abundance of proof makes for a compelling argument)

The only support for the CoC isn't Sheo camp seems to be:
-Lore doesn't specifically say it, however, Sheo lore is very ambiguous. Different interpretations could be made for either side.
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Take it as you will but if you're smart and you're planning to bet on this battle between N,CoC or DB, I'd say Courier.
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#66RebelElite791Posted 1/7/2013 2:44:45 AM
The developers have made it pretty clear in every single game that everything that could be done, was done (with the exception of the Civil War's outcome).

Firstly, hey have never, and will never say this. For starters, it's f***ing stupid.

Secondly, Wes Johnson does not speak for Bethsda. He is a voice actor.

Thirdly, Wes said "you" become Sheo. "You" do, when you play SI. Doesnt mean the CoC did. Please go read through that topic if youre actually interested in why youre so flagrantly and offensively wrong.
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Rebel is pretty much a planet, pulling all sorts of moons and satellites his way, among them good, bad, foolish, trollish, and everything else - SeaArrKing
#67RebelElite791Posted 1/7/2013 2:59:49 AM
-Bethesda's Game Design/"TES Tradition"


Btw, going to need examples of this. They have never once said "everything you do is canonically attributed to the MC." Not once. Ever.

-Sheogorath's nature


This is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Sheogorath's nature has nothing to do with Bethesda's canonl.

-A majority of the lore community support it (btw, the majority of the lore community is not GFAQs)


Not really, no.
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Rebel is pretty much a planet, pulling all sorts of moons and satellites his way, among them good, bad, foolish, trollish, and everything else - SeaArrKing
#68The_Beer_ScotchPosted 1/7/2013 3:01:57 AM
ValedictorianXD posted...
nathraxh posted...
Can someone explain how the CoC becoming a god isn't canon?

'Cause I'm not getting it.


It's canon. The developers have made it pretty clear in every single game that everything that could be done, was done (with the exception of the Civil War's outcome). The details typically aren't highlighted, however, (like, the manner in which you dispatched any of the Dark Brotherhood targets). If you could become Sheogorath, then it stands to reason that the CoC became Sheogorath and (due to the nature of Sheogorath) he essentially lost his identity. The Sheogorath you know now is the Champion of Cyrodiil + whatever Sheogorath is. It's hard to explain...and that's why he is the Prince of Madness.

Basically, all I'm saying is that the following support the theory that the CoC became Sheogorath:
-Bethesda's Game Design/"TES Tradition"
-Skyrim Dialogue
-Sheogorath's nature
-A majority of the lore community support it (btw, the majority of the lore community is not GFAQs)
-Wes Johnson, Sheo's voice actor, confirmed it (VAs have been wrong in the past but the abundance of proof makes for a compelling argument)

The only support for the CoC isn't Sheo camp seems to be:
-Lore doesn't specifically say it, however, Sheo lore is very ambiguous. Different interpretations could be made for either side.
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Take it as you will but if you're smart and you're planning to bet on this battle between N,CoC or DB, I'd say Courier.


I respect your viewpoint, for once someone is actually attempting to back up their claim with more than just "one ambiguous line in skyrim".

However I have to nitpick a little, firstly "tes tradition" actually goes against your argument, there has never been anything remotely confirmed as cannon about any of the main characters, beyond the main quest line itself.

Sheogoraths nature is irrelevant in this discussion.

The majority of the lore community believe sheo is not the coc, for reasons I will explain below.

Yes, everything in the tes games did happen, however not all of it was done by the main character... it would be ludicrous to assume that every main character has been the top position in every single guild and the champion of every single daedric prince etc.

Instead, someone became sheo, someone was the listener... etc.

Its left open so that if you would like, YOUR CoC can be sheo.... but maybe MY CoC was not sheo.

As for solid cannon, its left open as said above, there is no definitive proof either way, but thats the real basis of the "its note canon" argument, the simple fact that it is not.
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To be announced
#69The_Beer_ScotchPosted 1/7/2013 3:02:39 AM
RebelElite791 posted...
-Bethesda's Game Design/"TES Tradition"


Btw, going to need examples of this. They have never once said "everything you do is canonically attributed to the MC." Not once. Ever.

-Sheogorath's nature


This is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Sheogorath's nature has nothing to do with Bethesda's canonl.

-A majority of the lore community support it (btw, the majority of the lore community is not GFAQs)


Not really, no.


Fu Bro. Y U Ninja Me
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To be announced
#70nathraxhPosted 1/7/2013 3:03:08 AM
Val, Rebel has a terrible way of explaining things and is unable to see what's wrong with his method. It's probably why he's so angry all the time. Let me try.

As Wes Johnson has said, you (meaning both you and the CoC), in Oblivion (that bit's important), become Sheogorath. Let me say that again without the brackets for clarity: As Wes Johnson has said, you, in Oblivion, become Sheogorath. That's not under dispute.

This, however, is the bit that gets confusing.

The lore and canon surrounding the CoC himself (including everything he does) is only taken forward in part. Not everything that can happen in Oblivion is confirmed to have been carried forward into Skyrim. The only thing to happen in Oblivion that was carried forward is the Main Quest itself. I know, it seems weird, and I didn't believe it either at first, but let me explain.

The information and events that Bethesda carried forward from Oblivion to Skyrim are those of a player who has done only the main quest (also Sinderion's quest, I believe, and possibly some others) from Oblivion. All the side quests, all the guilds, all the DLC, is optional as to whether or not it happened.

As far as CoC = Sheogorath goes, it is heavily implied to have happened - but it is not 100% confirmed. The implications that it is canon are heavier than any other contended point of lore, but there is still no confirmation.

While you, in your game of Oblivion, may have become Sheogorath, Bethesda is largely assuming you did not, but puts in that line of dialogue to allow for players who want to think their Champion became Sheo.

I hope that's cleared it up slightly. It might still be a little unclear, I'unno.
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Dwarf shortage.