So who's the most powerful now that Dragonborn is out? CoC, Nerevarine or DB?

#71The_Beer_ScotchPosted 1/7/2013 4:06:00 AM
nathraxh posted...
Val, Rebel has a terrible way of explaining things and is unable to see what's wrong with his method. It's probably why he's so angry all the time. Let me try.

As Wes Johnson has said, you (meaning both you and the CoC), in Oblivion (that bit's important), become Sheogorath. Let me say that again without the brackets for clarity: As Wes Johnson has said, you, in Oblivion, become Sheogorath. That's not under dispute.

This, however, is the bit that gets confusing.

The lore and canon surrounding the CoC himself (including everything he does) is only taken forward in part. Not everything that can happen in Oblivion is confirmed to have been carried forward into Skyrim. The only thing to happen in Oblivion that was carried forward is the Main Quest itself. I know, it seems weird, and I didn't believe it either at first, but let me explain.

The information and events that Bethesda carried forward from Oblivion to Skyrim are those of a player who has done only the main quest (also Sinderion's quest, I believe, and possibly some others) from Oblivion. All the side quests, all the guilds, all the DLC, is optional as to whether or not it happened.

As far as CoC = Sheogorath goes, it is heavily implied to have happened - but it is not 100% confirmed. The implications that it is canon are heavier than any other contended point of lore, but there is still no confirmation.

While you, in your game of Oblivion, may have become Sheogorath, Bethesda is largely assuming you did not, but puts in that line of dialogue to allow for players who want to think their Champion became Sheo.

I hope that's cleared it up slightly. It might still be a little unclear, I'unno.


which is pretty much what anyone who has a clue's counter argument to the sheo become CoC in canon is :P well done.
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#72LolOkayPosted 1/7/2013 4:11:03 AM
It's happened lol.

Anyway I think this is the most civil Sheogorath/CoC topic like ever.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/615803-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/64920228

Sheogorath may or may not be the CoC. It's left vague because some people may have done Shivering Isles in their Oblivion game while some may not have.

Also, about the things that Sheogorath mentions (butterflies, a Fox, a severed head, and cheese). If the CoC did become Sheo then that would mean that he/she also completed the Thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood. In TES games, the only thing that is canonically credited to the player is the main quest. The Dragonborn DLC is also credited to the Dovahkiin as he is the only one that can complete it, but this isn't the case with the Shivering Isles, as you can start that even before starting the MQ in Oblivion.

In these games everything gets done, but by not necessarily by the pc.
#73nathraxhPosted 1/7/2013 4:14:02 AM
The_Beer_Scotch posted...


which is pretty much what anyone who has a clue's counter argument to the sheo become CoC in canon is :P well done.


Thank you. I do have to ask, though; if that's what they're trying to say, why don't they just say that? All I see in this argument is the same points made in a way that never succeeds in convincing anyone. It's a matter of articulation. If they can't understand what you're saying or can't decipher it through all the insults, you're doing it wrong.
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Dwarf shortage.
#74The_Beer_ScotchPosted 1/7/2013 4:25:55 AM
nathraxh posted...
The_Beer_Scotch posted...


which is pretty much what anyone who has a clue's counter argument to the sheo become CoC in canon is :P well done.


Thank you. I do have to ask, though; if that's what they're trying to say, why don't they just say that? All I see in this argument is the same points made in a way that never succeeds in convincing anyone. It's a matter of articulation. If they can't understand what you're saying or can't decipher it through all the insults, you're doing it wrong.


I assume when you say "you're doing it wrong" you are speaking figuratively? As I have not insulted anyone :)

If you read the topic I linked to in my first post here, you'll see that we (or at least I) DO explain that, but then people dig in their heels and refuse to ackowledge the viewpoint... start flinging insults... someone else insults them... etc etc.

Its why whenever I see this debate coming, I link to an old one as a "here, now stahp" :P
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#75RebelElite791Posted 1/7/2013 4:35:43 AM
nathraxh posted...
The_Beer_Scotch posted...


which is pretty much what anyone who has a clue's counter argument to the sheo become CoC in canon is :P well done.


Thank you. I do have to ask, though; if that's what they're trying to say, why don't they just say that? All I see in this argument is the same points made in a way that never succeeds in convincing anyone. It's a matter of articulation. If they can't understand what you're saying or can't decipher it through all the insults, you're doing it wrong.


You deal with 3 of these topics a week and see if your ability to be civil still remains by the third one.
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Rebel is pretty much a planet, pulling all sorts of moons and satellites his way, among them good, bad, foolish, trollish, and everything else - SeaArrKing
#76nathraxhPosted 1/7/2013 4:48:54 AM(edited)
The_Beer_Scotch posted...
nathraxh posted...
The_Beer_Scotch posted...


which is pretty much what anyone who has a clue's counter argument to the sheo become CoC in canon is :P well done.


Thank you. I do have to ask, though; if that's what they're trying to say, why don't they just say that? All I see in this argument is the same points made in a way that never succeeds in convincing anyone. It's a matter of articulation. If they can't understand what you're saying or can't decipher it through all the insults, you're doing it wrong.


I assume when you say "you're doing it wrong" you are speaking figuratively? As I have not insulted anyone :)

If you read the topic I linked to in my first post here, you'll see that we (or at least I) DO explain that, but then people dig in their heels and refuse to ackowledge the viewpoint... start flinging insults... someone else insults them... etc etc.

Its why whenever I see this debate coming, I link to an old one as a "here, now stahp" :P


Yeah, I meant it figuratively. I should've said "one is doing it wrong," and I apologize. I get that you and various other people have made those points before, but not everyone's convinced. Although there will always be elements of "digging the heels in," it's very easy to use that to dismiss the fact that one's argument was lacking. It might not even be that the argument was lacking. Some people are better convinced through metaphor, allegory, example, simplification of the wording; a genuine need to have one's arguments addressed and disproved before being convinced is incredibly rare, in my experience.

And Rebel, I really do know how you feel, and I ask this question out of genuine curiosity; it's not rhetorical at all. If you get frustrated having to answer the same topics again and again, and that frustration comes through in your posts and makes the recipient less likely to accept your logic and your take on things (which, from what I've seen, is almost always right), why post? Do you not want them to accept what's "correct?"
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Dwarf shortage.
#77nathraxhPosted 1/7/2013 4:48:27 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#78Jstretch19Posted 1/7/2013 12:39:10 PM
About time.
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#79SavagegattsPosted 1/7/2013 12:45:39 PM
nerevarine because you power up him enough you can kill vivic any pretty much every one seriously in morrowind I mean
#80the_arisenPosted 1/7/2013 12:48:18 PM
To quote the Mass Effect 3 writers



"Speculation for all"
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