If you could kill one Daedric prince, who would it be?

#81RebelElite791Posted 1/9/2013 11:57:16 PM
The_Real_Turnip posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
Do you know how burden of proof works?

In talking about OFFICIAL, CANONICAL, LORE stuff, CoC is not Sheo.


Do you? Philosophically speaking, which is the closest to what this is, the burden is on anyone making a claim. I didn't make a claim. I called you an *** hole. I can find a hundred of your posts where you prove that statement to be right - many in this thread. You claim that the CoC is unequivocally not Sheo. That's a hard, factual claim. Now: Prove it. Give us your "Official" "Canonical" source. There's no books in Skyrim that cover it. There's no posts from Todd Howard on twitter saying "Nah, CoC != Sheo, that was just an easter egg for fans of Shivering Isles" that I'm aware of. Back up your claim.

Historically, Canon has been that the previous hero (CoC) did the main quest and the major DLC. To complete Shivering Isles, you have to take on the mantle, title and responsibilities of Sheogorath. You can't avoid that. There's no "I'll take option B and let Haskill become Sheo". So if the CoC became Sheo (as per the main quest of Shivering Isles) - which judging by the Nerevarine, Tribunal, and Morrowind Canon, is more likely then not - the only question is if he is still Sheo, or if the CoC exists at all anymore. He could have simply becoming Sheo so thoroughly that Sheo is Sheo at this point - the madgods entire essence overwriting his.

Keep in mind I agree with you. I agree that CoC != Sheo. The big problem I have is the way you attack everyone who has a different opinion, and act like you speak with the word of god. You don't.

Normally, I'd put someone like you on ignore, but you go from these "I'm a huge ****" posts to really well thought out and helpful ones.


Burden of proof: YOU have to prove he 100% CANONICALLY AND FACTUALLY *IS* Sheo.

Oh wait, you can't?

Guess we're done then.

Historically, Canon has been that the previous hero (CoC) did the main quest and the major DLC.

Oh? Can YOU prove this?

Because SI and KOTN certainly dont require you to be the CoC. And we don't really have much of a precedent with just two previous games with expacs.
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Rebel is pretty much a planet, pulling all sorts of moons and satellites his way, among them good, bad, foolish, trollish, and everything else - SeaArrKing
#82clone11Posted 1/10/2013 12:01:19 AM
The burden of proof is going to be on the person who has claimed that Sheogorath and the CoC are factually one and the same person, not the person disagreeing with the claim

If you tell me gravity is real and I tell you I disagree, it's not up to me to prove you wrong, it's up to you to prove yourself right.
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"Bravery is by far the kindest word for stupidity..."
#83SunsetPhantomPosted 1/10/2013 12:06:11 AM
I knew my Bill Cosby quote was a good idea...
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A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice. ~ Bill Cosby
#84The_Real_TurnipPosted 1/10/2013 12:12:24 AM
RebelElite791 posted...
Burden of proof: YOU have to prove he 100% CANONICALLY AND FACTUALLY *IS* Sheo.


You do realise you're committing a logical fallacy right now, don't you? By trying to shift the burden off yourself (who is making the 100% "This is canon" statement that he factually and unequivocally is not Sheo) onto someone else. In this case someone who isn't actually claiming what you keep saying I am (And now, for the third time this thread, my only claim is that we have no official canon in this instance - everything is opinion and headcanon, which is proven by the fact that we have no official canon).

Oh wait, you can't?

Guess we're done then.


You can no more prove you're right then anyone who believes the other way can prove they are. So I guess we are done. Your entire case boils down to "You can't prove is he, so therefore he isn't". That's another pretty huge logical fallacy right there.

Because SI and KOTN certainly dont require you to be the CoC. And we don't really have much of a precedent with just two previous games with expacs.


A single incident is precedent. So we have precedent by definition. More then the minimum requirements, in fact.

The fact is, the absolute and incontestable fact is that none of us know for certain. So until the writers in question comments, it's just opinions. So take your head out of your butt, come down from that mighty steed, and stop acting like your in charge of deciding what is canon and what is not.

<Sarcasm>That or, I dunno, take a picture of yourself with Todd Howard and a sign saying "RebelElite791 is right, Sheo is absolutely not the CoC". Cause you must work for them, being "The Decider of Canon" and all. </Sarcasm>
#85RebelElite791Posted 1/10/2013 12:14:52 AM
By trying to shift the burden off yourself (who is making the 100% "This is canon" statement that he factually and unequivocally is not Sheo) onto someone else. In this case someone who isn't actually claiming what you keep saying I am (And now, for the third time this thread, my only claim is that we have no official canon in this instance - everything is opinion and headcanon, which is proven by the fact that we have no official canon).

Are you illiterate?

Just because it's not canon doesn't mean someone's CoC can't be Sheo. AS WE HAVE NO OFFICIAL CANON ON THE MATTER, it stands to reason that in a CANONICAL DISCUSSION the idea of CoC=Sheo should be tossed out the door.

A single incident is precedent. So we have precedent by definition. More then the minimum requirements, in fact.


And in that single incident, since they dont require you to be CoC, the CoC didnt canonically do them.

Glad we agree. Gg.
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Rebel is pretty much a planet, pulling all sorts of moons and satellites his way, among them good, bad, foolish, trollish, and everything else - SeaArrKing
#86thor23Posted 1/10/2013 12:17:30 AM
SunsetPhantom posted...
I knew my Bill Cosby quote was a good idea...


Zip Zop Zoobity Bop
#87ShaminardrgnPosted 1/10/2013 12:23:20 AM(edited)
Nocturnal, because of her attitude.

You like the dark, Nocturnal? How about we permanantly make you a part of 'nothing'

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"If Ripto were here, I'd give him a piece of my mind!" : Moneybags from Spyro 2
#88The_Real_TurnipPosted 1/10/2013 12:21:34 AM
RebelElite791 posted...
AS WE HAVE NO OFFICIAL CANON ON THE MATTER


So now you're saying that what I've been saying all along is right? Wow. That took a while. American education system in action here people. Now can you stop telling people they are completely wrong, or do you plan on continuing to be an ass hat?

If you're going to continue to be a big douche, that's cool, I'll just put you on ignore. It'd just be nice to know now rather then realise in a couple minutes when you post again.
#89RebelElite791Posted 1/10/2013 12:25:23 AM
The_Real_Turnip posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
AS WE HAVE NO OFFICIAL CANON ON THE MATTER


So now you're saying that what I've been saying all along is right? Wow. That took a while. American education system in action here people. Now can you stop telling people they are completely wrong, or do you plan on continuing to be an ass hat?

If you're going to continue to be a big douche, that's cool, I'll just put you on ignore. It'd just be nice to know now rather then realise in a couple minutes when you post again.


I've never said we had some official canon on it. Again, can you actually read?

Because we have no official canon, people cannot and should not say, in a fact-based lore discussion, that CoC=Sheo is canon.

So yes, anyone who says "It is official/canon/fact that CoC is Sheo" is "completely wrong."

You're welcome to ignore me so I don't have to see your driveling ignorant posts every time the more educated people are talking. Feel free, darling.
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Rebel is pretty much a planet, pulling all sorts of moons and satellites his way, among them good, bad, foolish, trollish, and everything else - SeaArrKing
#90lordgamingtonVPosted 1/10/2013 12:28:40 AM
Calling out to Rebel and Brenz.




As I have already made clear, I am rather unfamiliar with the lore. What the hell is the Shezarrine?
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They say that a dead man tells no tales. I disagree. They tell tales all the time, we just have to learn to listen.