Completed Soul Cairn mission feels like a slap in the face

#21thekosmicfool part 2Posted 1/27/2013 11:41:25 PM(edited)
But nearly all bandits attack you on sight. They may aim to rob you to feed their families or whatever noble purpose you are envisioning, but their idea of robbing is literally screaming "It'll be much easier to collect your coin once you're DEAD!" while trying to behead you the second you stroll by.

Were they just trying to rob you, and not slaughter you immediately, you could say they aren't necessarily "evil" but rather people trying to make ends meet any way they can. But straight up murdering anyone who walks by on the off chance they have something worth taking? Pretty frickin' evil, by most standards.

Aside from the gang holed up in the old tower/bridge that charges a toll to pass by on the road, no group of bandits spring to mind that seek any kind of outcome other than your imminent death.

Even when you best a bandit in combat and grant his request for mercy, he is only waiting until you turn your back so he can sink a shiv in it.

In conclusion, the only GOOD bandit is a DEAD bandit and...

SKYRIM IS FOR THE NORDS!
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#22Cogira94Posted 1/28/2013 1:10:42 AM
It's a videogame.
#23Arctic_SunrisePosted 1/28/2013 1:17:35 AM
My character is a 'For the Greater Good!" character anyway, so she would just chalk down the myriad people she sent to the Soul Cairn as acceptable collateral damage. (Since they are all necromancers, hedge wizards and bandits, etc).
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#24KontroLz85Posted 1/28/2013 3:08:31 AM
Cogira94 posted...
It's a videogame.


No, it's a discussion.
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#25lalallaalalPosted 1/28/2013 5:18:08 AM
Duckyhunter posted...
nathraxh posted...
They needed to reinforce the fact that necromancy is evil.

It had been getting kinda-.. kiddy. I'unno, the moans of reanimated corpses and their thanks when someone finally kills them does remind you, to an extent, that necromancy causes a lot of suffering, but it was easy to just say "well, soul trapping's fine, right? It ends quickly."

Necromancy isn't something a guy should just jump into, thinking that it's a morally grey area at worst. It is evil.


Not really. Delivering evil unto evil is pretty much the "chaotic good" D&D alignment in a nutshell.

And I'll never agree with anyone that says Bethesda needs to put even more black-and-white morality in their games.


Uh, no, torturing and raping evil people is not chaotic good. Trapping souls for your own greed is not chaotic good.

We're talking chaotic neutral AT BEST when it comes to the soul trapping. Evil of any type for the torturing and raping.
#261Denton28Posted 1/28/2013 5:20:23 AM
Something which has always bothered me about TES universe is the ease and commonality of "soul trapping".

If you really think about it.....
What a horrific world to be a part of where your eternal future can be robbed from you by any mook with a knife and a discount soul trap spell he picked up at Edgar's discount spell emporium.

And for what?
So his dagger can do 5 pts of fire damage?

I'm surprised there isn't some suicide cult out there dedicated to wiping themselves out before some jerkwad soul traps them.
Or at least enchanted weapons and staves or the practice in general should be illegal or heavily regulated.
#27FatherSuperior7Posted 1/28/2013 8:33:29 AM
thekosmicfool part 2 posted...
But nearly all bandits attack you on sight. They may aim to rob you to feed their families or whatever noble purpose you are envisioning, but their idea of robbing is literally screaming "It'll be much easier to collect your coin once you're DEAD!" while trying to behead you the second you stroll by.

Were they just trying to rob you, and not slaughter you immediately, you could say they aren't necessarily "evil" but rather people trying to make ends meet any way they can. But straight up murdering anyone who walks by on the off chance they have something worth taking? Pretty frickin' evil, by most standards.

Aside from the gang holed up in the old tower/bridge that charges a toll to pass by on the road, no group of bandits spring to mind that seek any kind of outcome other than your imminent death.

Even when you best a bandit in combat and grant his request for mercy, he is only waiting until you turn your back so he can sink a shiv in it.

In conclusion, the only GOOD bandit is a DEAD bandit and...

SKYRIM IS FOR THE NORDS!


Bandits say "What was that?"- after I've sliced their neck with a dagger, Farengar advises that I should visit the College of Winterhold if I have the aptitude while I'm standing before him in Archmage's Robes, guards tell me that they think they might be Dragonborn but they just don't know it yet while I'm absorbing the soul of a dragon that I assisted them in killing, etc. Gameplay really isn't a great source for forming an argument, it's typically filled to the brim with logical inconsistencies.

Valtheim Towers isn't the only place you can encounter Bandits who aren't seeking to kill you outright. I've been stopped along the road several times by a Thief/Bandit who tried to mug me. While not necessarily a common situation, it is entirely possible that this Thief/Bandit needs to feed their family and is willing to do anything to do so (hence why they don't just kill you immediately, they could be saving violence as a last resort).

As I mentioned, gameplay doesn't serve as very substantial evidence when trying to argue your point. It can be used to form a hypothesis (as I have done in regards to the roadside Thieves/Bandits), but it falls short as proof.

I will repeat my original point: not every Bandit/Vampire is the same, so to judge and sentence them as a singularity is to ignore reality.
#28nytecrawlaPosted 1/28/2013 8:42:50 AM
FatherSuperior7 posted...
Duckyhunter posted...
FatherSuperior7 posted...

Not every vampire is overtly evil. Nor is every bandit. There are probably plenty of vampires who were infected, but fear being killed if they seek out help, preferring to safely feed upon livestock/wildlife, and there are probably just as many bandits who are only trying to feed their families. Belonging to a group doesn't change your status as a human being, only you are capable of changing yourself.


No, deciding that you'd rather steal all your food rather than start a farm or business or simply get a job is most decidedly "evil."


That implies that the individual has been lucky enough to obtain the resources that are required to purchase property for a farm or place of business. That is not a luxury most people can afford, both in Skyrim and the real world. Also, considering every major city seems to have at least one homeless person, it is a bit naive to assume that there are enough jobs to go around (another thing Skyrim and the real world have in common). Not every bandit/vampire is the same and to try to classify them all as identical is to ignore the fact that reality is not black and white.


I have never understood why the hell there are so many unemployed/homeless people in Skyrim, when my character can walk up to a stump, chop wood for four hours and sell it all off for a couple thousand gold. You don't need any special skills to chop wood, or haul it, I just think it's pretty stupid to assume that this homeless guy sitting within walking distance of a wood chopping block is not smart enough to get up and make money. Homelessness in Skyrim is absolutely the result of laziness. People will pay you to pick crops you didn't even plant. There are so many ways to make money in this game that there should only be homeless people due to a lack of houses.
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#29aDominationPosted 1/28/2013 8:49:10 AM
Only felt bad for Arvak.
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#30FatherSuperior7Posted 1/28/2013 9:21:59 AM
nytecrawla posted...
FatherSuperior7 posted...
Duckyhunter posted...
FatherSuperior7 posted...

Not every vampire is overtly evil. Nor is every bandit. There are probably plenty of vampires who were infected, but fear being killed if they seek out help, preferring to safely feed upon livestock/wildlife, and there are probably just as many bandits who are only trying to feed their families. Belonging to a group doesn't change your status as a human being, only you are capable of changing yourself.

I
No, deciding that you'd rather steal all your food rather than start a farm or business or simply get a job is most decidedly "evil."


That implies that the individual has been lucky enough to obtain the resources that are required to purchase property for a farm or place of business. That is not a luxury most people can afford, both in Skyrim and the real world. Also, considering every major city seems to have at least one homeless person, it is a bit naive to assume that there are enough jobs to go around (another thing Skyrim and the real world have in common). Not every bandit/vampire is the same and to try to classify them all as identical is to ignore the fact that reality is not black and white.


I have never understood why the hell there are so many unemployed/homeless people in Skyrim, when my character can walk up to a stump, chop wood for four hours and sell it all off for a couple thousand gold. You don't need any special skills to chop wood, or haul it, I just think it's pretty stupid to assume that this homeless guy sitting within walking distance of a wood chopping block is not smart enough to get up and make money. Homelessness in Skyrim is absolutely the result of laziness. People will pay you to pick crops you didn't even plant. There are so many ways to make money in this game that there should only be homeless people due to a lack of houses.


Chopping wood requires a significant level of physical strength, something not always present in someone who has minimal access (if any at all) to food or someone who contracts illnesses regularly due to living out in the cold. Even if the homeless were capable of chopping wood, to do so for 4 hours would require a tremendous amount of stamina, which isn't typically a trait of a sick, starving homeless person. While picking crops is a seemingly easy solution, toiling in the hot sun all day would still take a toll on a person's body and some people (Nazeem, for example) might be opposed to letting a filthy homeless person touch their food.

Not every homeless person got to where they are through laziness (both in Skyrim and the real world), and to assume that is the case displays a severe level of naivety and willful ignorance of reality.