How much more powerfull should Destruction be for you to feel like its not UP?

#141FreeMan5407Posted 2/2/2013 1:19:01 PM
Mick65 posted...
@FreeMan

I can't explain it really as I have no way of checking the code itself to see what the actual damage is. Walls work for me, even with my non-NecroVamp PyroTank. Maybe it's the way I use them, set a circle around an enemy, shutterbash them and hit them with incinerate.


there is a few way to test it, turn the game adept, 2 handed cast wall of flames or storm, on a deathlord since these things have 1,000 hp? and test how many seconds it take to kill it , it should take 10 sec or less
#142ben_foxPosted 2/2/2013 1:29:50 PM
It would have to be storm because undead are supposed to be vulnerable to fire which can skew the numbers.

For my original point, you're now using 100 Smithing, tracking down 4 "of Peerless Wielding" items and using a sneak attack to get your damage...and that assumes that Fortify One-Handed actually works on a dagger (the displayed damage number doesn't change and general consensus is it doesn't, it would be very hard to verify if it works "silently.")

Again, more effort to get there (2 skills to 100, 4 highest-level enchanted items found or purchased, the not always possible sneak attack) than Destruction, which breaks 200 point Incinerates for no extra effort; you're getting there anyway if Destruction is one of your main skills.

So yeah, Destruction is fine. If you're willing to put forth the extra effort it takes to catch up to and surpass the damage Destruction deals just for being Destruction, you deserve to do so. Wouldn't you agree?
#143FreeMan5407Posted 2/2/2013 1:54:42 PM
ben_fox posted...
It would have to be storm because undead are supposed to be vulnerable to fire which can skew the numbers.

For my original point, you're now using 100 Smithing, tracking down 4 "of Peerless Wielding" items and using a sneak attack to get your damage...and that assumes that Fortify One-Handed actually works on a dagger (the displayed damage number doesn't change and general consensus is it doesn't, it would be very hard to verify if it works "silently.")

Again, more effort to get there (2 skills to 100, 4 highest-level enchanted items found or purchased, the not always possible sneak attack) than Destruction, which breaks 200 point Incinerates for no extra effort; you're getting there anyway if Destruction is one of your main skills.

So yeah, Destruction is fine. If you're willing to put forth the extra effort it takes to catch up to and surpass the damage Destruction deals just for being Destruction, you deserve to do so. Wouldn't you agree?


i could agree but you are missing the whole picture, destruction need the same effort or more, because for max damage you want to dual cast or using the spells 2h both method consume ton of magicka, so you have to take the perks cost reduction, the augmented perks, dual cast and impact, if you don't want to waste the perks on cost reduction you have to hunt down pre enchanting gear or make one which it can cost perk points

i agree about using the wall of storm instead since it don't do damage over time
#144lorddrago88Posted 2/5/2013 6:08:03 AM
Seeing Ignite and Aspect of Terror mentioned together only once makes me sad.

Those two combined let you melt enemies on Master.
#145TheNoctariusPosted 2/5/2013 7:46:32 AM
For me personally, same base DMG, but increase DMG by 1% per level in Destruction, making it double it's base damage at 100. That's enough.
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Living in the shadows, feeding in the darkness with only your own company to keep, rots into a solitary, hollow existence.
#146RayzoriumPosted 2/5/2013 9:06:59 AM
FreeMan5407 posted...
there is a few way to test it, turn the game adept, 2 handed cast wall of flames or storm, on a deathlord since these things have 1,000 hp? and test how many seconds it take to kill it , it should take 10 sec or less

Takes about 20 seconds, and this is with them standing completely still. But at even with 900 magicka, which is what you have if you put everything into magicka at level 81, you run completely out after just 8 seconds unless you rely on magic equipment.

If a physical fighter runs out of stamina, they can at least do normal attacks. Destruction is even more reliant on enchanted gear than the other combat disciplines.

lorddrago88 posted...
Seeing Ignite and Aspect of Terror mentioned together only once makes me sad.

Those two combined let you melt enemies on Master.

Agreed, but at this point, a pretty big point of discussion is not relying on equipment or other skill trees.
#147lorddrago88Posted 2/5/2013 11:11:40 AM
Rayzorium posted...

Agreed, but at this point, a pretty big point of discussion is not relying on equipment or other skill trees.


But the other combat skills also have to rely on other skill trees and equipment. More so in fact.

I'd rather do Master with only Destruction over One-handed/Two-Handed/Archery if I'm not allowed to use Alchemy/Smithing/Enchanting.
#148LeoduxPosted 2/5/2013 11:15:52 AM
lorddrago88 posted...
Rayzorium posted...

Agreed, but at this point, a pretty big point of discussion is not relying on equipment or other skill trees.


But the other combat skills also have to rely on other skill trees and equipment. More so in fact.

I'd rather do Master with only Destruction over One-handed/Two-Handed/Archery if I'm not allowed to use Alchemy/Smithing/Enchanting.


This man gets it.
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War Is The Answer
#149lorddrago88Posted 2/5/2013 12:16:01 PM(edited)
Honestly, if we are talking strictly about perks, Bound Bow Archer is probably the best because you don't need smithing to power up your weapon: you'll have an exquisite Daedric Bow with higher DPS.

Compare these three builds: Bound Bow archer, Destruction Mage focusing on Fire, and a Dual-wield warrior

I tried to get the minimum number of perks for making each build effective (which includes early game). Note that I was not including any perks for things like armor. Doing strictly the builds primary means of damage.

(Can't link to the IGN character builder so you'll have to take my word for it)

For Bound Bow: 17
For Destruction Mage w/ focus on Fire: 18 (17 if you really don't want the Apprentice perk, but I wouldn't recommend that)
For Dual-Wielder: 25.

EDIT: Anyways, Ignite w/ 2/2 Augmented Flames + Aspect of Terror gives you 21 damage for 15 seconds. So, a total of 315. Dual casted, it deals 693. And each Ignite stacks, so you don't have to wait for a previous one to finish.

At 60 Destruction, Apprentice perk, and 60 Enchant with some enchantments, I easily got my Ignites to cost about 4 mana for each one. And I'm only level 22 IIRC.
#150Evil_SandwichPosted 2/5/2013 12:31:35 PM
Player Character magic still sucks compared to the magic NPC mages get.