How much more powerfull should Destruction be for you to feel like its not UP?

#191Darg727Posted 2/6/2013 2:53:40 PM
lorddrago88 posted...


- Adding 15 damage to a 6 damage Ignite takes it from 90 damage over 15 seconds to 315 damage over 15 seconds. Dual-casted ala impact from 198 to 693. That's a 250% damage increase.


AoT+augment+mask+dualcast= 57.75 per second or 866.25 total for a 10 magicka cost spell. Totally intended this to happen when all other spells can't even come close damage or cost wise.

It's a gimmick and not what keeps being promised to us in game and what we came to expect from past games. We want a boom for the price we pay in game and we get a feather and a cheap trick.

AoT solves your problems but it doesn't solve the majority's. A lot of us like the other two branches of destruction as well. Compared to every other spell in the game, the return on direct damage spells for the cost is appalling. People keep spouting that enchants solve that problem except that we shouldn't have that problem in the first place. Having enchants should be optional and a quality of life improvement not a necessity and requirement.

The other problem being that master spells aren't as strong as their predecessors. Firestorm is only slightly stronger per cast at a tremendous cost increase over dualcast fireball, on top of being longer to cast, interruptible, and unable to benefit from impact.
#192FreeMan5407Posted 2/6/2013 3:22:31 PM
the funny thing is people keep talking about aspect of terror and ignite with fire but forget the rest, they forget aspect of terror is a bug, they forget AoT is an illusion effect and using the ring = using enchanting gear hence using indirectly the enchanting skill

then keep criticising about how much archery/2h/1h need smithing and enchanting , hypocrite much?

and if we compare with all skills/power etc. melee is TOO superior either way

PD: the master spells DO SUCK , lighting storm is only good against dragons and is not that good either, firestorm need sneaking and become ethereal and the dmg is no that high, blizzard = lol wtf?
#193lorddrago88Posted 2/6/2013 3:44:07 PM
Darg727 posted...

AoT+augment+mask+dualcast= 57.75 per second or 866.25 total for a 10 magicka cost spell. Totally intended this to happen when all other spells can't even come close damage or cost wise.


Bethesda changed the amount of items you have to smith to level up smithing. Iron daggers no longer level you up quickly. They didn't touch the aspect of terror bug. I would argue that they did intend for it to happen or if they didn't originally they are now fine with it.

I'm quite sure this topic is talking about Destruction being underpowered, not why Ignite is so good and how Frost/Shock need a boost. Considering that you just agreed with me, I'd say the topic is done and over with...?



FreeMan5407 posted...

and if we compare with all skills/power etc. melee is TOO superior either way


That's arguable. I'd take ranged stunlock over more damage but only at melee range any day.

And Bows are probably better than melee short of Elemental Fury and Dual-wielding.
#194FreeMan5407Posted 2/6/2013 4:51:58 PM
lorddrago88 posted...
Darg727 posted...

AoT+augment+mask+dualcast= 57.75 per second or 866.25 total for a 10 magicka cost spell. Totally intended this to happen when all other spells can't even come close damage or cost wise.


Bethesda changed the amount of items you have to smith to level up smithing. Iron daggers no longer level you up quickly. They didn't touch the aspect of terror bug. I would argue that they did intend for it to happen or if they didn't originally they are now fine with it.

I'm quite sure this topic is talking about Destruction being underpowered, not why Ignite is so good and how Frost/Shock need a boost. Considering that you just agreed with me, I'd say the topic is done and over with...?



FreeMan5407 posted...

and if we compare with all skills/power etc. melee is TOO superior either way


That's arguable. I'd take ranged stunlock over more damage but only at melee range any day.

And Bows are probably better than melee short of Elemental Fury and Dual-wielding.


elemental fury/dual fury/necromage combo have the best dps PERIOD, melee have the best RAW damage and thats another fact, who cares about stunlock? Melee have the meditate power to stagger 25% more and heck 1h/2h don't need it either cause of the massive damage and dps, unlike destro that need to stunlock tough opponents, over, over and over, range can also be irrelevant, with unrelenting force, ethereal, sprint and dragonrend

the topic is about destruction both storm and ice are included and the fact that you mention a boost IT TELL EVERYTHING
#195Darg727Posted 2/6/2013 4:55:40 PM
lorddrago88 posted...
Darg727 posted...

AoT+augment+mask+dualcast= 57.75 per second or 866.25 total for a 10 magicka cost spell. Totally intended this to happen when all other spells can't even come close damage or cost wise.


Bethesda changed the amount of items you have to smith to level up smithing. Iron daggers no longer level you up quickly. They didn't touch the aspect of terror bug. I would argue that they did intend for it to happen or if they didn't originally they are now fine with it.

I'm quite sure this topic is talking about Destruction being underpowered, not why Ignite is so good and how Frost/Shock need a boost. Considering that you just agreed with me, I'd say the topic is done and over with...?



FreeMan5407 posted...

and if we compare with all skills/power etc. melee is TOO superior either way


That's arguable. I'd take ranged stunlock over more damage but only at melee range any day.

And Bows are probably better than melee short of Elemental Fury and Dual-wielding.


First of all when some one talks about destruction it can be understood as flame/frost/shock. Second, everyone loves band aids amirite? It doesn't fix the issue and supersedes any destruction spell learned from that point onward, or at least until you get thrown in jail.

I personally will never touch AoT because of it's total disregard for the other two branches as all three should be equally destructive. It's a bug whether Bethesda wants to fix it or not. It makes lower fire spells decent and an enchantment OP.

Third, I actually like the smithing change because how do you become a master smith by making only daggers and nothing else.
#196lorddrago88Posted 2/6/2013 5:07:52 PM
FreeMan5407 posted...

elemental fury/dual fury/necromage combo have the best dps PERIOD,


I'm quite sure I wasn't disagreeing with you.



Darg727 posted...

First of all when some one talks about destruction it can be understood as flame/frost/shock. Second, everyone loves band aids amirite? It doesn't fix the issue and supersedes any destruction spell learned from that point onward, or at least until you get thrown in jail.


-Again, this topic is about Destruction magic being too weak, not about how much better fire is compared to frost and shock. Considering that most enemies are weak or neutral to fire (short of Flame Atronachs, Fire Dragons, Dunmer, and Buring Spriggans), using primarily fire is fine.

- You complaint would be someone whining about 1-handed combat being too weak compared to sword and board or dual-wielding. Not everything is always going to be equal and some things are better than others.


I personally will never touch AoT because of it's total disregard for the other two branches as all three should be equally destructive. It's a bug whether Bethesda wants to fix it or not. It makes lower fire spells decent and an enchantment OP.


- Frost is still good for enemies resistant/immune to fire. Ice Storm is amazing for stunlocking multiple enemies.

Shock is pretty worthless though.
#197SchesparnPosted 2/6/2013 5:33:13 PM(edited)
Who's resistant to fire? Aside from the uncommon flame atronach and an occasional dragon, I mean. Oh, and fire-element mages...
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#198FreeMan5407Posted 2/6/2013 5:38:33 PM(edited)
is true not everything is equal; but it seems that you agree with the other 2 elements being weak

i think is the other way, storm is better than ice, chain lighting can stagger multiple enemies like ice storm, lighting storm>>>>> blizzard no contest,the fact that storm/shock its very helpful against dragons and mages, another advantage is very few enemies resist it unlike ice , also shock travel faster and i think it have better range
#199lorddrago88Posted 2/6/2013 5:38:30 PM
Schesparn posted...
Who's resistant to fire? Aside from the uncommon flame atronach and an occasional dragon, I mean. Oh, and fire-element mages...


Nah, fire mages still die to fire.

Burning Spriggans in Dragnborn are immune to fire. Dunmer are resistant to it.

That's pretty much it. The fact that at least 50% of the game is weak to fire makes the other two elements even more worthless.

FreeMan5407 posted...
is true not everything is equal; both it seems that you agree with the other 2 elements being weak

i think is the other way, storm is better than ice, chain lighting can stagger multiple enemies like ice storm, lighting storm>>>>> blizzard no contest,the fact that storm/shock its very helpful against dragons and mages, another advantage is very few enemies resist it unlike ice , also shock travel faster and i think it have better range


Chain Lightning does not stagger multiple enemies. Besides, shock spells cost more mana.

Mages are beaten by simply have the Atronach stone and Impact spamming: making them lose mana is a waste of time since they have more mana than health. Dragons die to Impact. Hell, everything dies to Impact, but Dragons are piss easy when you have Impact.

Except Orchendor. He's an f***** ass. He's immune to all Destruction magic IIRC.
#200GBALoserPosted 2/6/2013 5:42:39 PM
FreeMan5407 posted...
is true not everything is equal; both it seems that you agree with the other 2 elements being weak

i think is the other way, storm is better than ice, chain lighting can stagger multiple enemies like ice storm, lighting storm>>>>> blizzard no contest,the fact that storm/shock its very helpful against dragons and mages, another advantage is very few enemies resist it unlike ice , also shock travel faster and i think it have better range


Oh, frost is notoriously weak just based on enemy resistances, although a properly aimed Ice Storm will wreak havoc, and having a few seconds of paralysis with the perk guarantees a kill on low-health enemies. Shock's only really weaknesses are cost and range (I think 2/3 the range of the other two types on average).
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