How much more powerfull should Destruction be for you to feel like its not UP?

#281Kant_Remoob_EhtPosted 2/7/2013 5:35:23 PM
Akito_Kinomoto posted...
...Destruction is underpowered?

Tell that to the warriors facing the bull**** known as Ice Mages. :P

The point of a mage is to liter the fight with all kinds of nonsense. The warrior and archer classes are linear.

But I play a Nightblade. So.


Are we talking about the player controlled mages or the NPC mages that seem to have bottomless amounts of magicka?
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#282Akito_KinomotoPosted 2/7/2013 5:57:18 PM
From: Kant_Remoob_Eht | #281
Akito_Kinomoto posted...
...Destruction is underpowered?

Tell that to the warriors facing the bull**** known as Ice Mages. :P

The point of a mage is to liter the fight with all kinds of nonsense. The warrior and archer classes are linear.

But I play a Nightblade. So.


Are we talking about the player controlled mages or the NPC mages that seem to have bottomless amounts of magicka?

The latter. Hence the :P

Though I swear an Arch-[Destruction] does more damage than the player does. Who knows.
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#283Darg727Posted 2/7/2013 6:34:41 PM
Akito_Kinomoto posted...
From: Kant_Remoob_Eht | #281
Akito_Kinomoto posted...
...Destruction is underpowered?

Tell that to the warriors facing the bull**** known as Ice Mages. :P

The point of a mage is to liter the fight with all kinds of nonsense. The warrior and archer classes are linear.

But I play a Nightblade. So.


Are we talking about the player controlled mages or the NPC mages that seem to have bottomless amounts of magicka?

The latter. Hence the :P

Though I swear an Arch-[Destruction] does more damage than the player does. Who knows.


Enemy npc spells are stronger than yours base plus difficulty modifier can make them hurt bad.
#284FreeMan5407Posted 2/7/2013 6:44:24 PM
im still waiting for the lorddrago answer

if i take the 5 perks barbarian, the 310 dmg goes up to 620 dmg on the elven warhammer and that still without the smith perk, potion and enchantments if you want to use it
#285ben_foxPosted 2/7/2013 7:09:31 PM(edited)
You kids and your refusal to do the slightest amount of legwork and math on your own are adorable.

Enchantment damage is an additive modifier applied at the end of the damage calc, which means that its contribution to overall weapon damage becomes ever more puny as raw base damage and multiplicative modifiers increase. When your base swing is dealing 577 points of damage, a 40 point damage enchant is about a 6% increase in final damage. To put this in perspective, just the 13 point boost from 100 Smithing and Dragon forging results in about a 46% increase in final damage. That is, all else being equal, (same skill level, perks, Fortify effects) you will deal around 46% more damage with the +13 base damage Warhammer than you will with a raw one.

But since using setups that are likely to be used in actual gameplay (yes, people who don't fail at Destruction routinely use Fortify Destruction potions, what do you think all that weight capacity not taken up by armor is going towards?) doesn't seem to cut the mustard, here you go.

These numbers represent, to the best of my knowledge, the highest guaranteed damage you can hit using each method, with all gloves off and everything in full-on kill it now mode. Again, DPS for Incinerate is calculated using x1.8 to allow for projectile travel time and slight adjustments of aim. Since I'm going to hear about it because people apparently have no reading comprehension, highest GUARANTEED damage, Chaos Damage is ignored because there is no guarantee of how many, if any, elements will proc on a given swing. Seeker of Might is likewise discounted due to lack of any reliable information on what exactly "combat skills are 10% more effective" actually means.

Dual Cast Incinerate + Augmented Flames 2, Ahzidal, +150% Fortify Destruction potion, with Deadly Aversion to Fire applied to target
Per cast: 60 x 2.2 x 1.5 x 1.25 x 2.5 x 2 x 1.1 = 1361
Approximate DPS: 2449.8

Dual Cast Incinerate + Aspect of Terror, Augmented Flames 2, Ahzidal, +150% Fortify Destruction potion, with Deadly Aversion to Fire applied to target
Per cast: (60 + 10) x 2.2 x 1.5 x 1.25 x 2.5 x 2 x 1.1 = 1588
Approximate DPS: 2858.4

Max-tempered Dragonbone Warhammer (100 Smithing + Dragon perk, 4x +29% Fortify Smithing items, +130% Fortify Smithing potion used during tempering) and enchanted with 100 Enchanting, Storm Enchanter, Fire Enchanter, Augmented Flames 2, Augmented Shock 2 and a +30% Fortify Enchanting potion + Two-Handed 100, Barbarian 5, 4x +47% Fortify Two-Handed items, +150% Fortify Two-Handed, Deadly Aversion to Fire and Deadly Aversion to Shock applied to target

Per swing: [(28 + 46) x 1.5 x 2 x 2.88 x 2.5] + (82 x 2 x 1.1) + (82 x2) = 1942
Approximate DPS: 1165.2

There you go. You can decide for yourself which you think is better.
#286lorddrago88Posted 2/7/2013 7:18:41 PM(edited)
ben_fox posted...
You kids and your refusal to do the slightest amount of legwork and math on your own are adorable.


Hey now, I COULD have done it!

>_>

Oh, and you forgot Dual-wielder with Elemental Fury. I'm positive it deals more DPS than either of those two, but I don't expect you to do the math because frankly I couldn't either and I think we can all agree that Dual-wield + Elemental Fury has the highest DPS potential.

Actually, looking at all that... it looks like Destruction can achieve more damage but with less perks. Sounds good to me. My only gripe is potions, but you can't have everything now can you?

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#287lorddrago88Posted 2/7/2013 7:17:09 PM
FreeMan5407 posted...
im still waiting for the lorddrago answer

if i take the 5 perks barbarian, the 310 dmg goes up to 620 dmg on the elven warhammer and that still without the smith perk, potion and enchantments if you want to use it


I'm sorry, but what was the question?
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#288ben_foxPosted 2/7/2013 7:25:36 PM
Dual-wielding is...wonky because you have two potential means of dealing damage, either with a dual strike or by swinging each weapon individually in succession. I'm not sure of the exact mechanics on how swing speed (or damage!) is modified for each (I think the speed of the off-hand weapon determines speed for dual strikes), but I can tell you that a max-tempered, max-enchanted Dragonbone Mace with all the proper skills, perks potions and enchantments switched over to one-handed does:

[(17 + 46) x 1.5 x 2 x 2.88 x 2.5] + (82 x 2 x 1.1) + (82 x 2) = 1705 damage per swing and a single-weapon DPS of 1364 without any attack speed modifiers.

From there, yeah, I got nothin.
#289GriffRobertsPosted 2/7/2013 7:28:13 PM
You know what?

I think Destruction should be made powerful enough for people to just shut up about it already. I don't have any problems with it, but if we get multiple 500 topics arguing about this, then there's probably something there.
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Either that, or gamefaqs is full of idiots. A very real possibility.
#290lorddrago88Posted 2/7/2013 7:31:35 PM(edited)
ben_fox posted...
Dual-wielding is...wonky because you have two potential means of dealing damage, either with a dual strike or by swinging each weapon individually in succession. I'm not sure of the exact mechanics on how swing speed (or damage!) is modified for each (I think the speed of the off-hand weapon determines speed for dual strikes), but I can tell you that a max-tempered, max-enchanted Dragonbone Mace with all the proper skills, perks potions and enchantments switched over to one-handed does:

[(17 + 46) x 1.5 x 2 x 2.88 x 2.5] + (82 x 2 x 1.1) + (82 x 2) = 1705 damage per swing and a single-weapon DPS of 1364 without any attack speed modifiers.

From there, yeah, I got nothin.


Watch the video again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQyHVyUOBTA

The attack speed is ludicrously fast. A mace is probably just as fast. I wouldn't be surprised if the DPS was 5000+ if we consider power attacks. I think dual-wielded power attacks do 4X as much damage as a single attack. A dual-power attack is multiple power attacks.

Have fun with that f****ing math.

And yeah, always have a none-dagger in the right hand and a dagger in the left hand for fastest swing speed.
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