How much more powerfull should Destruction be for you to feel like its not UP?

#41TelemaekusPosted 1/30/2013 9:11:36 PM
Just a few reasons why Destruction is not UP:

-You're comparing straight-up Destruction with weapons that are buffed with multiple other skills. (One-Handed, Smithing, Alchemy)
-Using Fortify Destruction potions can give you +75% damage without alchemy gear
-Dragon Priest masks allow another +25%
-Enchanted gear can allow you to cast for free (so you could actually spend no leveling points on magicka and be fine)
-Stagger-lock pretty much anything with impact
-AoE damage
-Is meant to be used in conjunction with other magic skills (fear/frenzy/summons/X-flesh/etc)

Again, people always compare a mage skill against a warrior build. If you only consider destruction against every skill a warrior uses (one/two-handed, light/heavy armor, smithing, enchanting, alchemy, restoration(for necromage)), then of course it's going to appear lackluster. If you use alchemy and enchantments, you are pretty much unkillable as a mage. Of course, that requires some slight amount of skill, so I can understand why many of you have issues.
#42rx54Posted 1/30/2013 9:12:24 PM
theonyxphoenix posted...
Every time destruction viability is debated, a puppy dies.

Don't kill puppies.


If it isn't underpowered then melee is overpowered.
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#43iDubstepPosted 1/30/2013 9:15:10 PM
theonyxphoenix posted...
Every time destruction viability is debated, a puppy dies.

Don't kill puppies.


I don't understand why people would say its not viable, this game is so fricken easy you can beat the game with unarmed for f***'s sake(although to be fair unarmed still has the potential to do more damage than destruction without resto looping).

But still, destruction sucks compared to any other attack skill, period. Conjuration, one handed, two handed, and archery all blow it out of the water in every way. Besides, nobody plays with just one skill, its how you combine your skills that makes your character strong. To say destruction isn't viable is pretty dumb... but to say destruction isn't completely inferior to everything else is even dumber...
#44Sir_SpecterPosted 1/30/2013 9:16:00 PM
alaindc posted...
A mage should become stronger when leveling
destruction spells should become stronger when destruction skill go up.

Exactly this. Destruction is pretty crappy because you just need to rely on impact to stunlock things and, as someone else said, spam spam spam spam spam because you do so little damage.

That's why I use mods to make impact only proc about half the time and make destruction damage scale.
#45MarquisRyizPosted 1/30/2013 9:35:52 PM(edited)
From: GBALoser | #015
rx54 posted...
LiqiudusSnake posted...
Well with 550 magica you can only duel cast incinerate like 3-4 times. That doesnt cut it right there.


You can get magic cost reducing gear.
It's still annoying though.


The guide to using magic at level 81 is cost redux gear and spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam your enemies more than you had to at lower levels.

Pretty clear sign that something is becoming less effective right there.


OK. Use unsmithed armor and weapon of your choice at level 81 and tell me how long it takes to kill anything.

Hell, use fully smithed armor and weapon of your choice (no resto loop), and tell me how you do.

Here's the difference I see:
You can feel the difference in weapon power much faster than you can with spell power.
HOWEVER, by level 40 Destro you become untouchable.

Either way, the damage output of both paths end up near equal based on perks used by 81. The only reason you don't feel like you're spamming sword swings is because it's a natural progression. I'll bet it takes near the same amount of swings as it does spell casts to kill.


Legendary one-handed Daedric Sword, in full enchanted gear nearly everything is dead within 5 hits for me on expert with no loop, Aside from the most powerful (dragon priest or greater powerful) dead in the first hit.

Destruction is either underpowered or melee and archery is overpowered. I'm doing a near pure mage (wearing legendary daedric armor so I can spend fewer perks maxing armor without magic) that only uses destruction and illusion. I own everything it I admit, but that's only because of impact. Without impact destruction would have zero use end game, It would be best to go illusion/melee or illusion/archer.
#46LeoduxPosted 1/30/2013 9:42:46 PM
MarquisRyiz posted...
From: GBALoser | #015
rx54 posted...
LiqiudusSnake posted...
Well with 550 magica you can only duel cast incinerate like 3-4 times. That doesnt cut it right there.


You can get magic cost reducing gear.
It's still annoying though.


The guide to using magic at level 81 is cost redux gear and spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam your enemies more than you had to at lower levels.

Pretty clear sign that something is becoming less effective right there.


OK. Use unsmithed armor and weapon of your choice at level 81 and tell me how long it takes to kill anything.

Hell, use fully smithed armor and weapon of your choice (no resto loop), and tell me how you do.

Here's the difference I see:
You can feel the difference in weapon power much faster than you can with spell power.
HOWEVER, by level 40 Destro you become untouchable.

Either way, the damage output of both paths end up near equal based on perks used by 81. The only reason you don't feel like you're spamming sword swings is because it's a natural progression. I'll bet it takes near the same amount of swings as it does spell casts to kill.


Legendary one-handed Daedric Sword, in full enchanted gear nearly everything is dead within 5 hits for me on expert with no loop, Aside from the most powerful (dragon priest or greater powerful) dead in the first hit.

Destruction is either underpowered or melee and archery is overpowered. I'm doing a near pure mage (wearing legendary daedric armor so I can spend fewer perks maxing armor without magic) that only uses destruction and illusion. I own everything it I admit, but that's only because of impact. Without impact destruction would have zero use end game, It would be best to go illusion/melee or illusion/archer.


And without smithing & enchanting your precious weapons would do crap damage.
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War Is The Answer
#47FreeMan5407Posted 1/30/2013 9:43:47 PM
Telemaekus , what you are talking about? you are missing the whole point 1h/2 h/ archery >>>> destruction , ( the comparison can be alone or with the others skills)

the debate is not about builds or characters, is about skills alone

*IMPORTANT NOTE : people are forgetting that destruction help the other offensive skill with extra effects it can add over 100 damage & the cost reduction help the weapon to have infinite charge jajaja , face it destruction need balance

i said it before and i say it again beth destroy destruction
#48TelemaekusPosted 1/30/2013 9:46:11 PM
FreeMan5407 posted...
Telemaekus , what you are talking about? you are missing the whole point 1h/2 h/ archery >>>> destruction , ( the comparison can be alone or with the others skills)

the debate is not about builds or characters, is about skills alone

*IMPORTANT NOTE : people are forgetting that destruction help the other offensive skill with extra effects it can add over 100 damage & the cost reduction help the weapon to have infinite charge jajaja , face it destruction need balance

i said it before and i say it again beth destroy destruction


The point is, if you only take One handed, without smithing, alchemy, and enchanting, it sucks just as hard as destruction does without alchemy and enchanting.
#49LeoduxPosted 1/30/2013 9:50:23 PM
Telemaekus posted...
FreeMan5407 posted...
Telemaekus , what you are talking about? you are missing the whole point 1h/2 h/ archery >>>> destruction , ( the comparison can be alone or with the others skills)

the debate is not about builds or characters, is about skills alone

*IMPORTANT NOTE : people are forgetting that destruction help the other offensive skill with extra effects it can add over 100 damage & the cost reduction help the weapon to have infinite charge jajaja , face it destruction need balance

i said it before and i say it again beth destroy destruction


The point is, if you only take One handed, without smithing, alchemy, and enchanting, it sucks just as hard as destruction does without alchemy and enchanting.


Alchemy and enchanting are not required in any way to make Destruction viable. You simply need to know what the hell you're doing, which some don't.
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War Is The Answer
#50FreeMan5407Posted 1/30/2013 9:50:57 PM
Telemaekus posted...
FreeMan5407 posted...
Telemaekus , what you are talking about? you are missing the whole point 1h/2 h/ archery >>>> destruction , ( the comparison can be alone or with the others skills)

the debate is not about builds or characters, is about skills alone

*IMPORTANT NOTE : people are forgetting that destruction help the other offensive skill with extra effects it can add over 100 damage & the cost reduction help the weapon to have infinite charge jajaja , face it destruction need balance

i said it before and i say it again beth destroy destruction


The point is, if you only take One handed, without smithing, alchemy, and enchanting, it sucks just as hard as destruction does without alchemy and enchanting.


it does suck, i give you that but it still better ,1 h only vs destruction only, 1 h it still better by a long mile