Awesome video on the dumbing down of TES games

#31LEGEND_725Posted 2/6/2013 8:21:02 PM
All this debate can easily be solved by having an option in the menus that makes essentials able to be killed. Then the option is there for those who want it. People like playing their games differently and the only problem I have is developers don't give enough options to fine tune some aspects. If I want to play super hardcore (lolhardcore skyrim) I should have that option, if someone wants to play more casual, then they should have that option.
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#32JohnRyan1228Posted 2/6/2013 8:22:45 PM(edited)
zerobobo posted...
also anyone who gets upset over a game becoming more mainstream, streamlined or "casualized" sorta has to remember that bethesda makes games to make a profit.

they aren't making TES games cus they love you and wanna make a game you'll love. they want to make a game that lots of people will buy and enjoy so they will continue buying their games.

i mean the amount of money it costs to develop big games these days we should count ourselves lucky that bethesda even made skyrim.

my response to the video is.

1.) yes, the quest objectives and journal system were simplified. the hand holdy nature of the quest arrow is a bit mindless but it makes sense. sure i'd like it to return to some middle ground, but im not upset over it.

2.) consquences, yeah i'd love some more, but again. easier to write and record dialogue and options for a text based game, so the limiting factor of this makes it understandable, but i think they can do better in the future, and i think they will.

3.) dialogue. well its fine in skyrim. significantly better than it was in oblivion. morrowind was a text based game so its not really fair or intelligent to compare them, as development costs for voice acting are significantly higher. before you say it, no the game should not return to text.

4.) costs on items. shut up with your whiney nitpicking crap.

5.) before i forget, the puzzles in skyrim are pretty simple, but then again the puzzles in morrowind and oblivion were piss easy too so dont act like they were hard or clever.


I think everyone knows WHY the game has been dumbed down. That isn't going to change the fact some people are justifiable upset about it. I agree mostly with the other stuff you said. The cost of items complaint is ridiculous
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If I ever cared about what you had to say, I'd stick a shotgun in my mouth and pull the trigger with my toes.
#33Belgarion05(Topic Creator)Posted 2/6/2013 8:22:41 PM
zerobobo posted...
also anyone who gets upset over a game becoming more mainstream, streamlined or "casualized" sorta has to remember that bethesda makes games to make a profit.

they aren't making TES games cus they love you and wanna make a game you'll love. they want to make a game that lots of people will buy and enjoy so they will continue buying their games.

i mean the amount of money it costs to develop big games these days we should count ourselves lucky that bethesda even made skyrim.

my response to the video is.

1.) yes, the quest objectives and journal system were simplified. the hand holdy nature of the quest arrow is a bit mindless but it makes sense. sure i'd like it to return to some middle ground, but im not upset over it.

2.) consquences, yeah i'd love some more, but again. easier to write and record dialogue and options for a text based game, so the limiting factor of this makes it understandable, but i think they can do better in the future, and i think they will.

3.) dialogue. well its fine in skyrim. significantly better than it was in oblivion. morrowind was a text based game so its not really fair or intelligent to compare them, as development costs for voice acting are significantly higher. before you say it, no the game should not return to text.

4.) costs on items. shut up with your whiney nitpicking crap.

5.) before i forget, the puzzles in skyrim are pretty simple, but then again the puzzles in morrowind and oblivion were piss easy too so dont act like they were hard or clever.


You essentially summarized his whole video. We all know why Bethesda is doing it. Many of us ("us" being those who frequent gaming forums) are not the "casual" kiddie gamer that needs his hand held, and we regret that we probably won't be seeing games like Morrowind again.
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"You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them." - Ray Bradbury
#34JohnRyan1228Posted 2/6/2013 8:24:38 PM
Belgarion05 posted...
zerobobo posted...
also anyone who gets upset over a game becoming more mainstream, streamlined or "casualized" sorta has to remember that bethesda makes games to make a profit.

they aren't making TES games cus they love you and wanna make a game you'll love. they want to make a game that lots of people will buy and enjoy so they will continue buying their games.

i mean the amount of money it costs to develop big games these days we should count ourselves lucky that bethesda even made skyrim.

my response to the video is.

1.) yes, the quest objectives and journal system were simplified. the hand holdy nature of the quest arrow is a bit mindless but it makes sense. sure i'd like it to return to some middle ground, but im not upset over it.

2.) consquences, yeah i'd love some more, but again. easier to write and record dialogue and options for a text based game, so the limiting factor of this makes it understandable, but i think they can do better in the future, and i think they will.

3.) dialogue. well its fine in skyrim. significantly better than it was in oblivion. morrowind was a text based game so its not really fair or intelligent to compare them, as development costs for voice acting are significantly higher. before you say it, no the game should not return to text.

4.) costs on items. shut up with your whiney nitpicking crap.

5.) before i forget, the puzzles in skyrim are pretty simple, but then again the puzzles in morrowind and oblivion were piss easy too so dont act like they were hard or clever.


You essentially summarized his whole video. We all know why Bethesda is doing it. Many of us ("us" being those who frequent gaming forums) are not the "casual" kiddie gamer that needs his hand held, and we regret that we probably won't be seeing games like Morrowind again.


And I don't see why this is a hard thing to understand for people.

I think overall skyrim is better, but there is a sizeable list of things that morrowind simply did better
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If I ever cared about what you had to say, I'd stick a shotgun in my mouth and pull the trigger with my toes.
#35darkportal785Posted 2/6/2013 8:27:14 PM
It's a damn game.

If you had fun playing it, it's a great game.

Doesn't need anything else.
#36JohnRyan1228Posted 2/6/2013 8:29:48 PM
darkportal785 posted...
It's a damn game.

If you had fun playing it, it's a great game.

Doesn't need anything else.


True, if a little narrow minded. Skyrim IS a great game. But like anything else, it could've been better. And it's productive to be honest about that and explore how it could be. Consider it a wish list for a sequel.
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If I ever cared about what you had to say, I'd stick a shotgun in my mouth and pull the trigger with my toes.
#37Darg727Posted 2/6/2013 8:31:41 PM
lorddrago88 posted...
Quest markers are due to NPCs having a schedule. 90% of RPGs have boring, static NPCs that stand in one place all day. Feels very "plastic".

Items are reduced in monetary value so you don't break the game with hordes of money (which you could do in Morrowind and gain a dozen free levels ala Training).

Reduced dialog is due to voice acting.

NPCs are invincible so random monsters don't break quests when they swoop down and nuke a town (hint hint).

I agree with some of his points but i feel he is nitpicking too much.

Also, there are in fact some quests that you can fail or where you can "backstab" someone.


Basically they want to do what they want in the base game when it is real easy to google and find an essential free save you can transfer to console with a simple flash drive. They want no excuses for their inability to mod the game the way they want it made so the blame falls on Bethesda because complexity and money are non issues when it comes to satisfying nostalgia.
#38zeroboboPosted 2/6/2013 8:35:34 PM
its also interesting to look at the complaints and bethesdas history.

people often over praise morrowind for alot of bad reasons.

100% handplaced loot. BAD idea. kills replayability and randomness. get top teir gear asap in morrowind, make a b-line to ghostgate and pick up some really easy to snag glass gear.

static never changing enemys in dungeons. limits your options, hampers freedom of exploration. adds tedium to alot of quests.
oh im level 25 and never explored this area before? guess what most of the places were are designed for level 5ish people. its tedious and unrewarding to explore that area and makes an interesting area to explore not really fun anymore since the enemies are so underpowered thats not fun, and oyu're not finding any worthwhile loot.

the reverse can also happen you can explore an area and find way too powerful stuff.
it may be an open world game, but that sort of design makes it fairly linear in how you play it. over here is pointless, its too low, over there is too high, so you get limited options and less freedom.

granted they went way too far in the other direction with leveled everything in oblivion, but if you'll look, they realized the flaws in that design style and changed. granted oblivions leveling system and leveled gear was awful, it was a good learning experience for them.

look at the system in skyrim. its actually very well done. look at bandits, they actually keep looking like bandits, with bandity gear but stay challenging. the randomized mostly leveled loot in chests and such also keep it worth your time to explore anywhere. it also makes sense bandits would stash all their expensive loot so they could pawn it off later. so that glass sword you found in the boss chest makes sense as they'd rather sell it than keep it.

yeah, i would have appreciated more unique items, and some more neat handplaced stuff, but hey im not much of a nitpicker
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#39JohnRyan1228Posted 2/6/2013 8:35:39 PM
Darg727 posted...
lorddrago88 posted...
Quest markers are due to NPCs having a schedule. 90% of RPGs have boring, static NPCs that stand in one place all day. Feels very "plastic".

Items are reduced in monetary value so you don't break the game with hordes of money (which you could do in Morrowind and gain a dozen free levels ala Training).

Reduced dialog is due to voice acting.

NPCs are invincible so random monsters don't break quests when they swoop down and nuke a town (hint hint).

I agree with some of his points but i feel he is nitpicking too much.

Also, there are in fact some quests that you can fail or where you can "backstab" someone.


Basically they want to do what they want in the base game when it is real easy to google and find an essential free save you can transfer to console with a simple flash drive. They want no excuses for their inability to mod the game the way they want it made so the blame falls on Bethesda because complexity and money are non issues when it comes to satisfying nostalgia.


Even more narrow minded. I own the pc version. But why shouldn't these things be in the base game? Is kind of a cop out to say: we don't have to make the best game we can because you can do it for us.
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If I ever cared about what you had to say, I'd stick a shotgun in my mouth and pull the trigger with my toes.
#40SolKarellenPosted 2/6/2013 8:39:23 PM(edited)
I'll never understand people that complain about un-killable NPC's...I'll just never understand.

Oblivion's leveling system was a trainwreck. It was needleslly complex, leading to it being absolutely counter-intuitive.

The only thing I think Skyrim needed was a way to make characters of the same race different on start up--bring back naming your class and pick major skills. Nothing much more complex than that.

Honestly, I just miss class names.
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