Do Christians identify with Talos as the equivelant of God?

#111BeidhaPosted 3/23/2013 2:18:21 AM
rx54 posted...
Beidha posted...
rx54 posted...
Yeah, you can only understand things if you've experienced them, that's why all astrologers have been to the sun and planets that have been discovered.

If religion were a sugar pill, and all of its effects were simply felt because the taker/believer believed they would feel them, could this not be possible?
Are you telling me that the placebo effect does not exist and that there is no way that believing anything could make you feel different even if there were no actual effects?

You fail to explain how if someone is given a sugar pill and told that it will make them happier, that it actually will.
You fail to realize that if someone is told believing in religion will make them happier, it could do the same thing.
You fail to explain how it is impossible that any of the effects or feelings that believers of Christianity experience aren't simply experienced because they believe they will feel them, regardless of whether Christianity is true or false.

Maybe I can't understand it, but apparently you can't understand how this is a possibility, or refuse to address it.


Youíve got to be kidding me. Iíve been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. Itís just common sense.


Couldn't have said it better myself.


Glad we've come to an understanding.
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#112obishawnPosted 3/23/2013 2:32:19 AM
You're not here to discuss or even debate, you're here to try and make people look stupid but if you want to drag this out, fine, I'll play your game. I haven't failed to do anything because I didn't bother dignifying your placebo analogies with any kind of response.

rx54 posted...
Yeah, you can only understand things if you've experienced them, that's why all astrologers have been to the sun and planets that have been discovered.


Yeah, because studying the stars is the same thing as trying to understand someone who has been born again. You need to realize that there are dynamics at work here that don't apply to astrology and that is why your little analogy fails.

rx54 posted...
If religion were a sugar pill, and all of its effects were simply felt because the taker/believer believed they would feel them, could this not be possible?
Are you telling me that the placebo effect does not exist and that there is no way that believing anything could make you feel different even if there were no actual effects?


I agree with you 100% with this, but where I disagree is when you think it allpies 100% across the board to all who profess to be Christians. Just because some one claims to be a Christian doesn't mean they have been born again. Those who haven't truly been born again do in fact partake in a placebo faith.


rx54 posted...
You fail to explain how if someone is given a sugar pill and told that it will make them happier, that it actually will.
You fail to realize that if someone is told believing in religion will make them happier, it could do the same thing.
You fail to explain how it is impossible that any of the effects or feelings that believers of Christianity experience aren't simply experienced because they believe they will feel them, regardless of whether Christianity is true or false.


I haven't failed anything, I chose not to address it. I chose not to address it because I know that you won't be able to wrap your head around the answer and you will explain it away with more silliness in an attempt to make yourself look smart, like you have some kind of chip on your shoulder and you have some great agenda to disprove Christianity to... someone.

And yet, I will explain, though it is more of me repeating myself. What you can't comprehend is the spiritual change that happens within a person once they are born again. Its a real, genuine change but there is no way to prove it to you unless:

1 - You knew me in real life and saw the change. You knew where I came from and the way I functioned and saw first hand how the change has effected me. Or

2 - You experience it yourself.

With astrology, we have technology and methods of studying these things. You can't understand what it is to be born again until you are born again yourself. Oh sure, you can examine my life and compare how I am to how I was, but you will also find yourself over analyzing everything until you can find a rational explanation.

1 Corinthians chapter 2: 11-14
11 For who knows a personís thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.[c] 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

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#113rx54Posted 3/23/2013 2:46:32 AM
At least you understood the placebo part I was trying to express, which makes the most sense to me.

You mention being "born again" and it reminded me of "ego death", something that happens with frequent use of powerful hallucinagenic drugs, severe social isolation, or lots of meditation.
You basically throw away your sense of self, which some people experience negatively to the point they no longer feel attached with reality.

They feel like someone in a movie theater and they're just watching the world go by, like a simulation. This is more common with frequent use of hallucinagens though.

Basically just a personality change, an epiphany, a revelation.
Is this all your "born again" is?
Because that's perfectly possible without any form of belief or faith.
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^ Drugs.
#114zane0144Posted 3/23/2013 5:15:12 AM
Beidha posted...
zane0144 posted...
rx54 posted...


No idea what you mean, but the fact is that there are 10 identical urban legends all identical to that of Christianity except for names and setting.

Now logically, if you believe in one of them you have to believe in all of them... Because they're the same.

If you believe in Christianity, and the I give you a Christian bible and i've only changed all the names and locations and that somehow makes it unbelievable then you're insane.

Either they're all true or all fake.
If you believe Bob from Canada has super powers, and then I say Bill from Mexico has super powers, and Ben from Russia has super powers, and Brandon from Germany has super powers but you believe none of those....

You are insane.
On what basis are they not true?
Names and locations adjust the validity?

If I tell you something and you don't believe it, changing my name and moving, and then telling you the same thing could change that?
Can you not understand my comparison?


This. This is exactly the reason these arguments never get anywhere. You see. To Christians the Bible is more than just words. Just as the Qur'an is more than a text to the Jewish people and ect.. The words are a guide. It's the feeling, the belief, the faith that drives them to follow the religion. Simply changing the names does not make it still true.

Now, you're way of thinking is perfectly vaild. Some people say that's the only way you can see it. But that's just it. Religious people and non-religious people have completely different ways of viewing these kinds of things. There's no point in arguing because you're just going to sound crazy to whomever you are arguing with. Because you can't think the way they think and they can't think the way you do. Cause if we could do that, then there wouldn't be an argument in the first place. That's why these topics are stupid. They will never get anywhere no matter how hard you try.


99% sure the Qur'an is muslim...


Darnit. I meant Torah. Thanks
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#115MustavusPosted 3/23/2013 5:58:45 AM
While I'm replying to something way at the beginning of the thread, and for some reason I read the whole thing, it just bugs me.

I was an interim minister's kid, so growing up I bounced between damn near every protestant church within an hour's drive. I've never heard of or personally encountered someone praying to a saint, unless they were Catholic, and I only heard them mentioned in a sermon when I was invited to mass.

All modern denominations have their own biblical interpretations and blah blah blah, but saints are generally a Catholic thing.

That said, I guess Talos could be conceivably compared to Jesus, if only because they're both sort of gods who were at least at one point sort of mortal, and were both worthy of fist bumps.

Religion's weird.
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...and that's how I came to be known as the Flourescent Haberdasher.
#116VexNoFace(Topic Creator)Posted 3/24/2013 1:39:16 AM
IamI3rian posted...

Not you best work here Vex.


Said next to nothing...
Made zero follow up posts (this is my first response)...
Began a 115 post argument with minimal effort...
Bothered someone enough to get her to create a NEW topic just to whimper about mine (which got deleted, she must be super pissed now)

Ruffled plenty 'o feathers...


I'd say I did pretty good actually
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VexNoFace likes it rough.
#117RAGEface14Posted 3/24/2013 2:08:35 AM
Talos=Jesus Christ. Akatosh=God.

That's how it could most accurately relate to Christianity. Think about it: Talos is a mortal who was given the gift of supernatural power by Akatosh, and he later died, only to ascend to godliness.
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RAGEface14
The guy who told Klefer
#118Ryan-06Posted 3/24/2013 3:01:05 AM(edited)
The universe and the nature of existence is full of unknowns and infinite possibilities. There should be no reason for science and faith to not coexist. They have in the past. They can today and into the future. It's the groups of people that cause unnecessary hatred and harm. That stops compromise and progress.

Existence is a beautiful thing, something shared among all sentients is being able to ask why, how, what our purpose and place is. To seek answers to questions that will remain constant for all generations to come, regardless of how advanced our civilization becomes.

It is the journey, not the destination. = )
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#119CrusnikCainPosted 3/24/2013 3:41:20 AM
I should go
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#120RebelElite791Posted 3/24/2013 3:48:38 AM
RAGEface14 posted...
Talos=Jesus Christ. Akatosh=God.

That's how it could most accurately relate to Christianity. Think about it: Talos is a mortal who was given the gift of supernatural power by Akatosh, and he later died, only to ascend to godliness.


Talos is a conglomerate of three men, who, in life, were really quite s***ty people. The main part of the god, Talos the man, was the worst of the three. They then became a god by mantling another dead god. They were not "given the gift of supernatural power and died"

Where do you kids even think this stuff up?

Unless Jesus is a 3-pronged murdering sob who mantled a dead god, no.

And Akatosh is neither the most powerful nor the most important god. He also has really no relation to Talos.
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