is destruction really that underpowered when you consider...

#71LockeadonPosted 4/22/2013 5:37:28 AM
HoonDing posted...
I don't mind the Fortify Crafting Skill effects, since being able to reach the armor cap with my favorite weaker tiers of armor is awesome, same with all weapons having a marginal difference in damage.

The big thing is when that's used in conjunction with a Fortify One-Handed or Two-Handed effect.

They could probably balance that just by restricting that enchantment to gauntlets alone, instead of gauntlets, rings, amulets, and (of all things) boots. Reducing the base magnitude would be effective in balancing it, too. You could still loop the three crafting skills to get incredibly fortified magnitudes, but I'm not completely opposed to that; just make it harder, possibly even demanding a heavy investment in all three skills so that only dedicated artificers could reach those levels.


the problem isnt really the crafting skills we have its the crafting skills we dont have. spellmaking (and cooking) being left out is perhaps the biggest problem with magic, along with the ridiculous spell costs. if we could make our own spells from whatever magic effects we have (like in oblivion) it would open the door for... most of whats missing.
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#72HoonDingPosted 4/22/2013 6:03:36 AM
...wtf does cooking not being fleshed out have to do with magic?

Spellcrafting is highly overrated. Skyrim's spells come in a much wider variety, and individual spells are a lot more complicated. A basic Frost spell alone comes with Frost Damage, Stamina Damage, and Slow effects in addition to a unique paralysis effect unlocked by the Deep Freeze perk. And that's saying nothing of the delivery: Cloak, Rune, streaming, and the hazards set by the Wall spell. Ironically, skyrim's canned magic is far more robust than spellcrafting ever was.

Would spellcrafting fix the destruction damage scaling issue? Sure, but even if you don't consider it an issue, the scaling is easily fixed through other, simpler methods. All I miss about spellcrafting was the autonomy, but that's got more to do with the RP aspect than the gameplay, and it's still not that important to me.
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#73Zero IXPosted 4/22/2013 6:09:00 AM
Playing on Legendary as a pure mage, and Destruction feels just fine to meóbeating down a Legendary Dragon with a single spell should take several casts and a couple minutes, not one or two backstabs or a shout followed by a few casual power attacks. The only unbalanced thing about Destro and magic in general is that the cost of spells is so high it practically demands 100% or near 100% cost-reduction, which is silly... it makes the "best" mage-building strategy front-loading HP at the expense of MP because you're just going to reduce your MP costs to zero or near zero anyway.

Melee, on the other hand, is overpowered even on the highest difficulties thanks not only to the crafting skills but all the shouts and perks aimed at beefing up its DPS. Meanwhile Sneak is broken almost all on its own...

That said, the corollary is in an already relatively easy game, this makes mages the most fun archetypal build to play. Playing as a no-holds barred warrior or thief unrepentantly taking advantage of everything the game offers those builds feels incredibly cheap, whereas being a "pure" mage seemingly encourages the player to take advantage of as many things as possible (like Alchemy or the DB-exclusive gear), making them varied and fun. *shrug*
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#74Evil_SandwichPosted 4/22/2013 6:32:40 AM(edited)
HoonDing posted...
...wtf does cooking not being fleshed out have to do with magic?

Spellcrafting is highly overrated. Skyrim's spells come in a much wider variety, and individual spells are a lot more complicated. A basic Frost spell alone comes with Frost Damage, Stamina Damage, and Slow effects in addition to a unique paralysis effect unlocked by the Deep Freeze perk. And that's saying nothing of the delivery: Cloak, Rune, streaming, and the hazards set by the Wall spell. Ironically, skyrim's canned magic is far more robust than spellcrafting ever was.

Would spellcrafting fix the destruction damage scaling issue? Sure, but even if you don't consider it an issue, the scaling is easily fixed through other, simpler methods. All I miss about spellcrafting was the autonomy, but that's got more to do with the RP aspect than the gameplay, and it's still not that important to me.


All Bethesda had to do to fix Destruction was to simply add a fortify destruction damage enchantment or have spells gain bonus damage as you increase in level like NPC Mages do. (Malkoran's Ice Storm can hit for over 500 dmg due to scaling for example).

Adding a fortify destruction damage enchantment would have allowed people to use even Novice spells on Legendary difficulty for the entire game...
#75silverhunter16Posted 4/22/2013 6:47:52 AM
Zero IX posted...
magic is fine, everything else is just OP


All you have to say and you're right for the most part but there are still some glaring issues with destruction that you can't just ignore either.

The cloak, rune, and wall spells don't get any stronger even with the augmented perks.
The master spells take to long to cast and do lack luster damage (One is so heavily gimped that it's practically useless)
Cost reduction is almost completely mandatory to use it properly.
Enchanted weapons can do more magical damage then destruction (Chaos enchant is the single most broken enchantment in the game and made destruction its b****)
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#76N1ghtm4reW0lfPosted 4/22/2013 6:59:09 AM
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#77sunbro1Posted 4/22/2013 7:01:42 AM
N1ghtm4reW0lf posted...
You're also a very bad, if not persistent, troll. Fall ill, and die.


You don't think that's a bit harsh? Ah GameFAQs.
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#78silverhunter16Posted 4/22/2013 7:56:08 AM
sunbro1 posted...
N1ghtm4reW0lf posted...
You're also a very bad, if not persistent, troll. Fall ill, and die.


You don't think that's a bit harsh? Ah GameFAQs.


Normally, I'd agree but the man is a troll and trolls need to be put down.
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#79LostoutPosted 4/22/2013 9:48:47 AM
I don't know how many times it has been said but I'll say it again. If you think Destruction is UP you are simply playing it wrong. I won't mention potions because a) then it really is OP and b) I never play using potions anyway.

If you think high level destruction build is just running around dual casting expert level spells then ofc you will find it underwhelming because you are simply not doing it right. Here's a scenario you're in a Draugr tomb in one of those rooms where you just know about 10 guys are going to come out the crypts so you;

1.Dual cast flame cloak
2.Dual cast some runes on the ground
3.Dual cast some wall spells

Ideally you can pull this off before combat so you will likely still be at/near full mana once the fighting begins you have to cast in a sequence - ignite on both hands cast left, cast right a split second later then Dual cast. Your goal is to stack fire damage in as many ways as possible.

Between that runes and cloak and wall spells everything will drop in seconds.

In my most recent mage game lv66 on expert that would take around 30-45 seconds to clear the room and my mana of around 400 (high regen build) would be in zero danger of running out.

TL:DRYou're a mage you don't charge in without a plan you have to think a bit I honestly think (and I'm trying to not sound like a tool here) but people who complain about destruction damage just have no idea what they are doing.
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#80HoonDingPosted 4/22/2013 10:06:55 AM
Don't forget the other magic schools. A pure focus on Destruction is of course going to get you all kinds of owned; you can use Alteration and Illusion to get the upper hand before you enter battle, Conjuration to help even the odds, and Restoration to sponge damage. Wards are also great anti-dragon tools, if you use them right.
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