I'm calling it right now. Mark this day in stone. (future of TES)

#21blackmageomegaPosted 7/3/2013 1:42:00 PM(edited)
LooksForSkooma posted...
Don't project Judeo-Christian prejudice onto other religions. If you talk to a Hindhu or Buddhist they will tell you that all other Gods exist. From the Olympians to the Norse Aesir. Judeo-Christian religions (Jews, Muslims, Christian, etc) are the ones that arrogantly claim everything but their God is false.


Because Judeo-Christians have been the only ones throughout history to kill people for not believing in their God? You just mentioned the Olympians and the Norse Aesir, what the hell do you think their original followers did to people who said they didn't believe in their gods? Hell the Romans used to throw the Christians (when it was the new kid on the block) to the lions for blasphemy on a weekly basis.

My point was that a damn vast majority of the world don't believe that every single book ever written was 100% true and purely fact-based.
#22LooksForSkooma(Topic Creator)Posted 7/3/2013 1:42:54 PM
blackmageomega posted...
LooksForSkooma posted...
Don't project Judeo-Christian prejudice onto other religions. If you talk to a Hindhu or Buddhist they will tell you that all other Gods exist. From the Olympians to the Norse Aesir. Judeo-Christian religions (Jews, Muslims, Christian, etc) are the ones that arrogantly claim everything but their God is false.


Because Judeo-Christians have been the only ones throughout history to kill people for not believing in their God? You just mentioned the Olympians and the Norse Aesir, what the hell do you think their original followers did to people who said they didn't believe in their gods? Hell the Romans used to throw the Christians (when it was the new kid on the block) to the lions for blasphemy on a weekly basis.

My point was that a damn vast majority of the world don't believe that every single book ever written was 100% true and purely fact-based.


I never said anything about killing people in the name of religion. This is what you said.
blackmageomega
I'm not saying religion is bull (another argument altogether) but even if you believe in one religion then by proxy you discount all the other religious accounts of other religions to be falsified and bogus.</
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It amazes me that people can figure out how to make a GameFAQs account and post topics but not utilize google. *no faith in humanity*
#23blackmageomegaPosted 7/3/2013 1:51:51 PM(edited)
LooksForSkooma posted...
blackmageomega posted...
LooksForSkooma posted...
Don't project Judeo-Christian prejudice onto other religions. If you talk to a Hindhu or Buddhist they will tell you that all other Gods exist. From the Olympians to the Norse Aesir. Judeo-Christian religions (Jews, Muslims, Christian, etc) are the ones that arrogantly claim everything but their God is false.


Because Judeo-Christians have been the only ones throughout history to kill people for not believing in their God? You just mentioned the Olympians and the Norse Aesir, what the hell do you think their original followers did to people who said they didn't believe in their gods? Hell the Romans used to throw the Christians (when it was the new kid on the block) to the lions for blasphemy on a weekly basis.

My point was that a damn vast majority of the world don't believe that every single book ever written was 100% true and purely fact-based.


I never said anything about killing people in the name of religion. This is what you said.
blackmageomega
I'm not saying religion is bull (another argument altogether) but even if you believe in one religion then by proxy you discount all the other religious accounts of other religions to be falsified and bogus.</


When you add up every single person who has ever believed in a form of religion that didn't believe in others vs the ones that believe they're all playing cards somewhere. Yeah, I felt like generalising the number to give an example of my point. Doesn't change my original point CHIM could be an entirely made-up concept in the ES world.

Edit: Also, the killing thing. WHY do you think they killed them? They did it because they believed that their God was a false God. Which goes BACK to the main point of "it's not only the judeo-christian sects that believe other religions are false religions." "I never said anything about etc etc" well how about thinking WHY I mentioned it in the first place? Sheesh I hate when people do that, bring up a counter point then they act like it's in no way related whatsoever.
#24LooksForSkooma(Topic Creator)Posted 7/3/2013 1:51:19 PM
I thought it was confirmed that Talos achieved CHIM. Also (speculative) Vivec achieved CHIM.
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It amazes me that people can figure out how to make a GameFAQs account and post topics but not utilize google. *no faith in humanity*
#25blackmageomegaPosted 7/3/2013 2:01:30 PM
LooksForSkooma posted...
I thought it was confirmed that Talos achieved CHIM. Also (speculative) Vivec achieved CHIM.


It was also confirmed a long time ago that someone was raised in a tree, cut his father open so his siblings could escape, then castrated him and threw his junk in a sea where his sister was born. He then took over as lord of the skies, gave his other siblings a few desk jobs, and oversaw a whole bunch of hijinks involving heroes and that one off time he was a bull. Not a lot of people really believe in Zeus now though do they?

I get where you're coming from, really, but in a game like ES where if you want to talk to so and so divinity they usually do manifest and reply to you (and send you on a fetch quest) I'm just casting a raised eyebrow that something as monumentally life-changing as CHIM hasn't been brought up a few more times in the bigger picture.
#26LooksForSkooma(Topic Creator)Posted 7/3/2013 2:09:37 PM
blackmageomega posted...
LooksForSkooma posted...
I thought it was confirmed that Talos achieved CHIM. Also (speculative) Vivec achieved CHIM.


It was also confirmed a long time ago that someone was raised in a tree, cut his father open so his siblings could escape, then castrated him and threw his junk in a sea where his sister was born. He then took over as lord of the skies, gave his other siblings a few desk jobs, and oversaw a whole bunch of hijinks involving heroes and that one off time he was a bull. Not a lot of people really believe in Zeus now though do they?

I get where you're coming from, really, but in a game like ES where if you want to talk to so and so divinity they usually do manifest and reply to you (and send you on a fetch quest) I'm just casting a raised eyebrow that something as monumentally life-changing as CHIM hasn't been brought up a few more times in the bigger picture.


I'm not going to talk about ancient religions/cults because I'll sound crazy. Look up "cargo cults" and I think you'll know where I'm going. Anyways how does that have anything to do with CHIM? You can compare CHIM to the Buddhist idea of Nirvana. And like CHIM you don't see people going around and achieving Nirvana on a whim. It's something that takes years of learning. We don't know what CHIM is (or how to achieve it) exactly so even if someone was standing right in front of you with CHIM you wouldn't know. We do know however it is not a made up concept in TES.
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It amazes me that people can figure out how to make a GameFAQs account and post topics but not utilize google. *no faith in humanity*
#27blackmageomegaPosted 7/3/2013 2:18:41 PM
LooksForSkooma posted...
I'm not going to talk about ancient religions/cults because I'll sound crazy. Look up "cargo cults" and I think you'll know where I'm going. Anyways how does that have anything to do with CHIM? You can compare CHIM to the Buddhist idea of Nirvana. And like CHIM you don't see people going around and achieving Nirvana on a whim. It's something that takes years of learning. We don't know what CHIM is (or how to achieve it) exactly so even if someone was standing right in front of you with CHIM you wouldn't know. We do know however it is not a made up concept in TES.


But once again a lot of people don't believe in Nirvana. And despite there being plenty of books and belief in Nirvana it's not something that's ever been proven or disproven beyond a reasonable doubt. It could be a real thing (which would be nice) or it could be made up and we've got nothing to look forward to but being worm-food, you'll have people arguing for both sides. If one day some divinity just parted the heavens and flat out confirmed it was real then that'd do it for just about the majority of the world.

In a game like ES where divinities pop in and out of the world on a frequent basis I'd like at least once for them to acknowledge it exists then I'd be all for the concept of CHIM. Until then I remain skeptical it could just be a made up thing.
#28Wings of FortePosted 7/3/2013 2:19:44 PM
RebelElite791 posted...
Rthan posted...
Ageed Rikiaz, as long as it stays as a metaphysical concept never gained by a player character, and you only hear about it through lore books, I just choose to ignore it, but can accept its place within the lore.

Its when people spout nonsense about how their characters have CHIM, and its shown by the fact they can alter their world (mods). Or the worst offender, if their character dies, the whole reloading a save is CHIM (my god I hate that garbage), is it so difficult to understand that your character never died to begin with ?

The only game where the character was able to die, but change it and it was a great concept was Prince of Persia the Sands of Time. Every time you missed a jump and he died, you could just rewind time to before you died, and the Prince even says "no, that's not how it happened" as your rewinding to before you died LOL.


Except that isn't CHIM, that's people joking around/not knowing the lore who say that stuff.

So....


Roleplaying. CHIM can reshape the land and possibly time so some people use it as an in game (their own headcanon) justification using mods or reloading saves.

...let's kill them for doing that!
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A.K.A Red Dingo
#29LooksForSkooma(Topic Creator)Posted 7/3/2013 2:22:04 PM
K let's get away from the real-world. In TES maybe the Gods don't just go, "Oh hey Tiber Septim we think you're a cool guy so we're gonna give you CHIM!" But the Aedra did make him a deity. Maybe becoming a god is CHIM.
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It amazes me that people can figure out how to make a GameFAQs account and post topics but not utilize google. *no faith in humanity*
#30blackmageomegaPosted 7/3/2013 2:28:59 PM
LooksForSkooma posted...
K let's get away from the real-world. In TES maybe the Gods don't just go, "Oh hey Tiber Septim we think you're a cool guy so we're gonna give you CHIM!" But the Aedra did make him a deity. Maybe becoming a god is CHIM.


For sure, if CHIM does exist then I'd say obtaining it is the main criteria needed for Godhood. Then again that could be a reason why none of the divinities DO mention it, why add more competition to the mix?

Or it could be a massive 4th-wall breaker giving an existential justification for the player character completely customising themselves and their class/starsigns/etc. The tower on its side being a wheel could be a massive joke about a spinning game disc.

Could be anything.