Recommended paths to take as a pure Thief?

#11konvikt_17Posted 3/19/2014 9:14:11 AM
King-Odie posted...
East of whiterun is a word wall that gives you all three words for throw voice. I had a bosmer thief/assassin. It will be a hard fight because krosis is there. His mask gives you 20%archery,alc! and lock picking. Left side of the river up in the mountains. IIRC there isn't much climbing to get to it. Krosis(DP) and dragon remember!

Use throw voice when sneaking if you don't want to kill. They'll run to where ur cursor is then u slip by. Loads of fun IMO


as a note, if you dont fight the dragon at the watch tower by Whiterun, the dragon wont be there when you get to the word wall. you only have to deal with Krosis.
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#12AnimeKid1089(Topic Creator)Posted 3/19/2014 9:53:57 AM
konvikt_17 posted...
King-Odie posted...
East of whiterun is a word wall that gives you all three words for throw voice. I had a bosmer thief/assassin. It will be a hard fight because krosis is there. His mask gives you 20%archery,alc! and lock picking. Left side of the river up in the mountains. IIRC there isn't much climbing to get to it. Krosis(DP) and dragon remember!

Use throw voice when sneaking if you don't want to kill. They'll run to where ur cursor is then u slip by. Loads of fun IMO


as a note, if you dont fight the dragon at the watch tower by Whiterun, the dragon wont be there when you get to the word wall. you only have to deal with Krosis.


I won't fight Krosis since I won't really need his mask. I'll nab the loot in the chest, and run like hell.
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I am not a kid, nor a huge fan of anime, so don't ask.
#13OrokenDuMongerPosted 3/19/2014 10:33:12 AM
Even as a pure thief, wouldn't be acceptable to kill undead and unnatural creatures (like Daedra)?

This might be better on PC, because you can use mods for Water Arrows that extinguish torches and other open flames. (Or Fire Arrows that do the opposite)

Could make a bow that dose very low damage and has a paralyze enchant so you can avoid combat.

Could improve block to acquire Disarm bash for the bow.
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One does not simply pass through the Omega IV Relay - CouchCommandoIV
#14AnimeKid1089(Topic Creator)Posted 3/19/2014 10:42:26 AM
OrokenDuMonger posted...
Even as a pure thief, wouldn't be acceptable to kill undead and unnatural creatures (like Daedra)?

This might be better on PC, because you can use mods for Water Arrows that extinguish torches and other open flames. (Or Fire Arrows that do the opposite)

Could make a bow that dose very low damage and has a paralyze enchant so you can avoid combat.

Could improve block to acquire Disarm bash for the bow.


No need for enchantments, since Alchemy covers everything anyway, especially Paralyze, which is easily made anyway since at least two ingredients are plants, and can be planted in a build house from the Hearthfire DLC.
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I am not a kid, nor a huge fan of anime, so don't ask.
#15icy959Posted 3/20/2014 7:06:44 PM(edited)
@op: Nope, your wrong.

If you think that a pure thief build is a non combat build, your simply trolling or clueless there's evidence that proves otherwise. ES lore-wise thieves are superb archers which even reflect their respective guild since if you see the radiants for the members you'll see that they're practicing their archery skills in the training hall. Not to mention that that the only master trainer for archery in vinilla game is a member of that guild.

Even in the earlier ES games "pure" thieves are capable nimble fighters who were experts in either daggers or bows since those weapons relied on agility & speed(traditional thief stats btw). So basically there's more than enough evidence that thief is a non-combat role is utterly and completely debunked.


BTW: A non-combat build is practically a catch 22 since it simply wont work eventually, trust me. Even if you steal from someone, hired thugs will eventually hound you which is difficult to escape from. Next thing you have to start from scratch.
#16SrgtStalkerPosted 3/20/2014 7:49:00 PM
icy959 posted...
@op: Nope, your wrong.

If you think that a pure thief build is a non combat build, your simply trolling or clueless there's evidence that proves otherwise. ES lore-wise thieves are superb archers which even reflect their respective guild since if you see the radiants for the members you'll see that they're practicing their archery skills in the training hall. Not to mention that that the only master trainer for archery in vinilla game is a member of that guild.

Even in the earlier ES games "pure" thieves are capable nimble fighters who were experts in either daggers or bows since those weapons relied on agility & speed(traditional thief stats btw). So basically there's more than enough evidence that thief is a non-combat role is utterly and completely debunked.


BTW: A non-combat build is practically a catch 22 since it simply wont work eventually, trust me. Even if you steal from someone, hired thugs will eventually hound you which is difficult to escape from. Next thing you have to start from scratch.


Plus for certain quests you HAVE to kill someone, even in the Thieve's Guild quests.
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#17robd42Posted 3/20/2014 8:14:37 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#18Wlc22Posted 3/20/2014 8:33:45 PM
Don't know if it's been said but alchemy could be useful. Get the one pickpocket perk and beat enemies by dropping poisons in their pockets which I assume gets absorbed into their skin. And it'll keep invisibility and health potions on you.
#19AnimeKid1089(Topic Creator)Posted 3/21/2014 4:52:19 AM(edited)
icy959 posted...
@op: Nope, your wrong.

If you think that a pure thief build is a non combat build, your simply trolling or clueless there's evidence that proves otherwise. ES lore-wise thieves are superb archers which even reflect their respective guild since if you see the radiants for the members you'll see that they're practicing their archery skills in the training hall. Not to mention that that the only master trainer for archery in vinilla game is a member of that guild.

Even in the earlier ES games "pure" thieves are capable nimble fighters who were experts in either daggers or bows since those weapons relied on agility & speed(traditional thief stats btw). So basically there's more than enough evidence that thief is a non-combat role is utterly and completely debunked.


BTW: A non-combat build is practically a catch 22 since it simply wont work eventually, trust me. Even if you steal from someone, hired thugs will eventually hound you which is difficult to escape from. Next thing you have to start from scratch.


Really, dude? You think I'm trolling because I say a pure Thief build does not rely on combat skills? Let me tell you something... Bethesda set up the factions the way they did because it's supposed to be accessible to the casual gamers... they dumbed down things in Skyrim to make it less frustrating and more accessible in comparison to Oblivion. That's why there's even a situation with the Nightingales where you supposedly have to fight. But you never HAVE to fight, you can just sneak past all enemies while your new Nightingale buddies do all the fighting. As for the part with the traitor Guild master Mercer, It is possible to Sneak out of sight or use an Invisibility potion and slip poison into them with Pickpocketing. But if push comes to shove, you may resort to combat (hence, the causal appeal because it's easy money).

I'm sure you noticed this because nearly every faction has an Alchemy table, Enchanter, Grindstone and Armor Workbench as well. Heck, even the Dark brotherhood has all those things in Skyrim.

I wonder if you played previous Elder Scrolls games, though.

A Pure Thief in general does not use combat by any means to get around, and those characters within the guild have their own little backstories to explain why they even have those skills to begin with. A Thief does not rely on sticking an arrow in the knee or in the throat to rob anything from a food cart to a Jarl's bedroom. A Pure Warrior does not use Illlusion to win in melee combat, and a Pure Mage does not rely on Archery to win at ranged battle. Get it?

I'm sure you used to "builds" made by others who created skill combinations that make them interesting, and that's fine. But if you think a Pure Thief actually needs Archery or One Handed, or can't be a Pure Thief without them, then you clearly have not read the dictionary enough or have not played enough RPGs, simply put. But don't give the "Oh well, robbers in real life sometimes use guns to intimidate cashiers to give moneeeey!" because all it does is make things easier. Point is, a pure Thief does what he does best; steal things from others (and does not need or require violence to do it).

-.-
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I am not a kid, nor a huge fan of anime, so don't ask.
#20AnimeKid1089(Topic Creator)Posted 3/21/2014 4:51:01 AM
robd42 posted...
I do think the OPs premise of no combat is deeply flawed. Archery and daggers are a must have skill to pull off this game as a pure thief. The player must kill Mercer. the Sommerset Isles thieves group and a slew of ghosts in the course of the thieves guild quest line. To get a home outside of the Thieves guild also require some killing. Killing dragons and draugar are also going to be frequently required to get through the various quests needed to progress the story line. I applaud the OP for trying new RP approaches, but there is just too much required killing to pull this off effectively. One of the primary benefits of thieves/sneak perk tree is damage added to combat skills. Even as far as gathering ingredients to achieve all those potions is going to require a lot of combat before you have enough to paralyze or poison all the opponents you will not be able to escape. The sneak skill rises very slowly when you do not use it for sneak attacks on opponents as well. A better application is to always try and avoid combat, but when it must happen be very very effective with archery and daggers. That actually sounds like a fun play through, albeit a slow progress through the quests.


Just because Sneak HAS perks that multiply sneak damage does not mean it's required, nor does it mean that killing is required. Weapons are not required. A Pure Thief is skilled enough to pull off getting through, but I already explained this to one other person.
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I am not a kid, nor a huge fan of anime, so don't ask.