Thalmor Dossier: Ulfric Stormcloak (SPOILERS)

#1SteminPosted 7/1/2012 4:50:19 AM
Alright. This board could stand a little intelligent conversation, so lets have this out..

The whole Imperials vs. Stormcloaks thing has been done over and over again. And on the PC board I use. What I find interesting is that the vast majority here favor the imperials and the PC board tends to be split about 50/50. I can't help but wonder if that's because this is mostly an american board, while the pc board is international, but that's another discussion.

What I have noticed is there is a huge difference on both boards over the interpretation of Ulfric's Dossier.

I'm going to post the dossier here, and I want to hear your interpretations:

Status: Asset (uncooperative), Dormant, Emissary Level Approval

Description: Jarl of Windhelm, leader of Stormcloak rebellion, Imperial Legion veteran

Background: Ulfric first came to our attention during the First War Against the Empire, when he was taken as a prisoner of war during the campaign for the White-Gold Tower. Under interrogation, we learned of his potential value (son of the Jarl of Windhelm) and he was assigned as an asset to the interrogator, who is now First Emissary Elenwen. He was made to believe information obtained during his interrogation was crucial in the capture of the Imperial City (the city had in fact fallen before he had broken), and then allowed to escape. After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact.

Operational Notes: Direct contact remains a possibility (under extreme circumstances), but in general the asset should be considered dormant. As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.) A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.

The part that I find particularly interesting is where it says, "After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset."

The common consensus seems to be that Ulfric is doing the Thalmor's bidding without being aware of it (or perhaps not caring), but that sentence above seems to implicate that at one point he WAS a direct agent of the Thalmor, or at least sympathetic.

#2KlobziPosted 7/1/2012 5:25:51 AM
Knowing Ulfric, he probably used Thalmor assets for his own goals. I truly believe Ulfric wants Skyrim for the Nords again without any Thalmor presence.
#3starslightPosted 7/1/2012 5:32:01 AM
Stemin posted...
The common consensus seems to be that Ulfric is doing the Thalmor's bidding without being aware of it (or perhaps not caring), but that sentence above seems to implicate that at one point he WAS a direct agent of the Thalmor, or at least sympathetic.

I agree, but it does say that he broke under interrogation and was "assigned as an asset to the interrogator," which doesn't sound terribly pleasant. He may have been working with them willingly, but only after they made him believe that he was responsible for their capturing the Imperial City.

I don't find Ulfric a particularly sympathetic character, but I do feel for him here. I think the Thalmor ****ed his mind up in a major way.
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#4DuckyhunterPosted 7/1/2012 6:37:13 AM
The Thalmor are using the civil war to weaken the Empire for whenever they decide to make their next move.

They're using Ulfric to drag the war on for as long as possible. They do not want him to win.

Keeping "contact" with Ulfric could mean anything. Ulfric meets his former torturer Elenwen at the Greybeards' peace council. She probably has spies in Windhelm.
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#5MHettenbachPosted 7/1/2012 8:58:17 AM
personally I think he thinks of himself more as an Ally than a tool for the Thalmor, but I think the Thalmor think of anyone and everything as tools to further their goals.
#6KushuPosted 7/1/2012 8:09:36 PM
Well, Ulfric was able to Shout before he joined the Legion, because he used it during his service at Markarth.
So, presumably it was his Voice, plus his status as nobility (directly in line for succession to the Jarl of Windhelm) that got him labelled "Asset". So, the Thalmor tricked him during his captivity. They pushed his buttons (making him believe he was responsible for the fall of the Imperial City) probably with lots of snide, altmer taunting and teasing about all the people they were going to kill, to stoke his hatred. I assume the "Allowing him to escape" bit was a trick as well and he wasn't "In on it". At this point, maybe they're not sure just HOW they'll use him yet, but they can probably use him. If it comes to that, a public execution of such a figure could cripple the morale of their enemies.

That was post-war...or during the war. Whatever. After the war, then, you have the Thalmor's Talos Edict essentially being mocked openly, people not REALLY following it, just sort of lip-service agreeing with it, but the Thalmor know they're still strong enough to crush the Empire. They WANT the empire. But a completely unified empire might be a bit much.. After all, the great war was long and bloody. Heroes and saints have a way of showing up to that kind of ____. So perhaps they decided to switch techniques. They've got Jarl Ulfric set up with a burning hatred of the Thalmor/Aldmeri Dominion. And presumably all it takes is a bit of pressure, the Thalmor pressing in to Skyrim and demanding that the Empire fulfill the White-Gold Concordant and outlaw Talos Worship THERE to start the Skyrim Rebellion. Something they could use to stir up trouble in Skyrim and weaken the empire as a whole. Their enemies would rally behind a decorated war hero, leader of a hold who can Shout. That gets their alleged enemies (rebels/talos worshippers) more into the open. And the longer the war drags on, the more their real enemies (everyone not an Altmer) suffer and weaken.

As a result of this, I would assume that by "Future Contact" they mean whatever it takes but primarily assume that it will be confrontational (he's labelled as Uncooperative). This makes me think the Thalmor had someone at Helgen to get Ulfric out (an alleged stormcloak, but actually a Thalmor agent) but then the dragon attacked and the plan got shot to ____ (but also went very well because the double agent didn't have to reveal himself)
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