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I wish people would give Skyrim a break! (Compass marker related)

#1U1gitaroomanPosted 11/25/2011 5:23:58 PM
I see a few threads pop up here and at other forums I frequent regarding how they "Never got lost exploring" thanks to the compass mark. Or how "the game is too easy" because you always know exactly where to go, lamenting the old Morrowind days where they character gave you some directions and you just went and found it....

These are all legitimate issues and I'm not blaming anyone for their opinions. I want to point out, however, that we basically asked for this. We, as a gaming culture on the whole, have demanded voice acting as the future of gaming. Morrowind was able to get away with having complicated instructions with no marker because, thanks to non-completely-voiced-dialog they could write an actual complicated directions that you are meant to check your journal over and over again just to remember the description of the pointy rock you needed to turn left at.

In Oblivion and Skyrim, there are little to no directions given via dialog, thanks to the existence of the compass marker. However, think about what the alternatives are. Fully voicing complicated instructions would had gotten expensive. Revealing the location on your map without giving you a marker would had basically been the same thing, as all you'd have to do is check your map and *snap* you know which direction to go anyway. The only way I could even half-see it going would be to have things exactly the same as it is now, except when you check your quest log, the intimate details would be written down there. However, I feel this would flow and immersion breaking as you would have to bring up your quest log practically every five seconds.

Long story short, ask yourself if you think Skyrim would had been the phenomenon it has been if Oblivion had chosen not to integrate the compass marker, and all the side-effects (fully voiced dialog, few obvious paths through the wilderness..etc etc) and remained a text-laden hide-and-seek-a-thon that Morrowind was (with respect, I <3 Morrowind). It would had been fun, and some people would definitely enjoy it, but it would had in no way reached the market penetration that it has now.
It could be anything.
Because clearly this is the board for orange soda and five dollar foot longs. What on earth did you think he meant, if not the game?
#2U1gitarooman(Topic Creator)Posted 11/25/2011 5:28:54 PM
It could be anything.
Because clearly this is the board for orange soda and five dollar foot longs. What on earth did you think he meant, if not the game?
#3jedinatPosted 11/25/2011 5:32:07 PM
It's impossible to play a game where the NPCs are on schedules or do random things and go random places without a quest marker. Well, not impossible, but extremely tedious and boring.
#4rollingrandyPosted 11/25/2011 5:35:33 PM
To be fair, not all directions in Morrowind were very good either. I remember a quest where I was told to meet someone. When I ask about the person, there is no hint of a specific location, just the city. It wouldn't be so bad but the city was Vivec.

There are similar things happening in a small number of other quests, but that was by far the worst I encountered. I'll try to find the specific quest name if I can.
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#5StritePosted 11/25/2011 5:36:38 PM
A simple note put in your inventory could have solved this. That being said,if the just put a map marker on my map, and not the compass, I would be happy with that. It makes sense. I prefer pointing to a place on a map verus giving directions in real life.
Live life by one simple rule. **** happens!
#6billboticsPosted 11/25/2011 5:42:16 PM
Can't you just turn off the objectives? I guess I don't understand that complaint. I can see someone complaining that it is too easy for other people, but if they're complaining that the game is too easy for themselves and they aren't fully utilizing their own imagination, I don't know how that is anyone's fault but their own. If it's a matter of receiving directions from a voice and not having it written down, they could take the time to write it down in a real journal, making it that much more immersive.
#7U1gitarooman(Topic Creator)Posted 11/25/2011 5:55:28 PM
Haha. Yeah, Rollin, I remember one quest in the Ashlands, I think, where it's like "Just climb the mountain, turn left and you'll see it!" I was stuck for well over and hour my first time, and always got lost on repeated playthroughs!

You see, Strite, to me, the only difference between "marker on map" vs "marker on compass" is the tedium of having to check your map repeatedly. You're still being shown exactly where to go, but without it being on the compass, you'll either:

a) check the map, figure out which direction it is on the compass and keep running that way until you get there. (If you don't have the compass on, it's still as simple as "point character in direction, run straight")
b) check the map over and over again as you get lost and contiunally re-adjust your position.

Either of the two options aren't really challenging you or asking you to find anything, I just see it as a tedious amount of map-checking that isn't strictly necessary. What I'm getting at is that doesn't really solve the root problem. Oh, and I addressed the note-idea in my OP. If they added in-depth directions to the quest's the closest thing they could get to a nice compromise, but I still feel like it would be too immersion breaking.

Bill, if you're saying what I think you're saying.... the point was that, with voiced dialog, they simply CAN'T be as specific as they were back in Morrowind days. Morrowind had instructions like, "Go down the road until you see the sign and make a left. Go forth until you find the lava pool with the rock that looks like a hand sticking out of it. Turn right just past the pool. You will see the Dwemer ruin nestled between two arches" or something like that. Meanhwhile, in Oblivion/Skyrim, "Go to Myerjfnwrjarl" which do you think they would rather have expensive voice actors say?
It could be anything.
Because clearly this is the board for orange soda and five dollar foot longs. What on earth did you think he meant, if not the game?
#8SahuaginPosted 11/25/2011 5:57:12 PM
compass markers are pretty much a necessary evil, since coordinating the quest text and the environment is not easy especially when you have a distributed workload. also, there is not really any difference between being given a map marker by an NPC and a quest having an objective marker; it's just a mental hurdle to accept the former over the latter.

what's particularly horrible though is highlighting every last thing you are supposed to interact with in glowing goldenness (Bioshock IIRC). When the objective indicator is "in your face" forcing you to not think, then there is a serious problem. Imagine if every lever for every portculis that you had to open was glowing in blinding golden light with a giant arrow pointing at it.
Atheism is merely a consequence of having intellectual honesty.
If you download games for free (illegally), you are an anti-gamer. Period.
#9U1gitarooman(Topic Creator)Posted 11/25/2011 6:03:54 PM
True. And that's where even I have a somewhat problem with Skyrim. I wish there was a little more complicated, exploration dungeons....

HOLY ****! That's why I love blackreach so much! Not because it was literally the most beautiful environment I've seen in gaming in the last 5 years, but because it was an old-school "Hey, your objective is OOOOOOOVVVVEEEERRRRR there! Have fun getting there!" dungeon!

4 hours later....i finally entered the quest tower. ^_^
It could be anything.
Because clearly this is the board for orange soda and five dollar foot longs. What on earth did you think he meant, if not the game?
#10blowsephPosted 11/25/2011 6:12:48 PM
This is why they give you the option of disabling the quest markers but still be able to do the quest. If you don't want to be told where to go, don't mark the quest as active, and don't read the quest details. Common sense.