TAY Plot Makes No Sense... (MASSIVE FF4 AND TAY SPOILERS)

#1DimlhugionaPosted 9/30/2012 9:13:15 PM
So, lemme get this straight:

Several years after you basically defeat the incarnation of evil, Zeromus, along comes God (who looks like a day-glo puppy) who decides He wants to go all Biblical on creation and destroy it all? So then you kill God, but totally ignore Zeromus's Malice, which is what offed FuSoYa in the first place?

Meanwhile there's an army of what I can only assume to be re-programmed sex slaves doing God's bidding, but they turn against him for some reason? And then you steal a moonchild and Rydia raises it as her own, also for no apparent reason?

Also Edge is spying on everyone via terrible "Master of Disguise" knockoff ninja wannabe's? But for some reason he never thought to put a spy on KAIN or CECIL?!

And the crystals, which are responsible for the life forces, are really just data records that God sent out because he wanted to evolve more? Even though he can create life to begin with?

I feel like I just read a terrible fan fiction.
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The above post was typed in front of a live studio audience.
#2TakarifreakPosted 9/30/2012 10:29:44 PM
Not that I'm saying the plot DIDN'T have it's fare share of plot holes and stuff that makes no sense in context, but I think you failed to pay attention on a few things here. Some of the things you listed make a certain amount of sense or were actually explained.


Zeromus's Malice wasn't being ignored. Golbez wasn't doing much talking, so no one knew what the hell was going on with the Red Moon until final dungeon time, when the party finally learns who he is(at which point they have their own immediate crisis to solve). When the game ends, Golbez DOES go back to investigate. Half the rest of the party are the leaders of the Blue Planet. They have their own world to fix up.


From what I personally gathered, the Maeneds do have free well, but are programmed to take orders from the Creator (think Clones in Star Wars). Once he goes insane, he isn't giving them orders anymore, and thus his "control" over them is broken. He's also wrecking up crap, and they do apparently have some self-preservation (if you notice throughout the game, the Mysterious Girl only attacks when she's provoked).

Rydia didn't steal Cuore for "no apparent reason", the Maeneds specifically ASKED she be taken care of, since she's a CHILD.


Cecil hasn't DONE anything by the time Edge issues the missions. He sends his crew to make sure everything's fine with the crystals, because he already senses something isn't right, but not sure yet WHAT. Baron doesn't hold a crystal. A good chunk of Edge's Tale proper takes place before the cystals start being stolen (after which events move very quickly), so Edge hasn't a way to know Baron is causing trouble, since they haven't even STARTED causing it yet.

No one has seen Kain for 17 years. There's no way Edge could know about Kain being eventually involved in the events until later in the game, when everyone is gathering. Tsukinowa leaves Mysidia before "Kain" shows up for the first time. When Edge finally leaves Eblan in The Crystals, none of the initial party has actually encountered Kain (before the battle at Baron Castle, only 3 people with Edge/co. have encountered him: Porom, Yang, and Ursula).


My interpretation of the Creator is that he's searching for the meaning of life. He's ill, and he's the LAST of his kind. That alone has to mess with a person's mind. Pay attention to what he says after one of the first fights with him...he wonders if things could have ended differently for his people if evolution had taken a different course. What happened to his kind was tragic, and he wants answers. Could it have been prevented, or was it inevitable? He can't go back and relive the past, but he CAN watch other worlds grow and see how things may or may not be different from his own history.

As for the destroying part, I'm chalking it up to him being old, ill, and already teetering on the edge of insanity. He sees the worlds of the crystals as HIS CREATION (hence his name...he referes to himself as such; it isn't just a name for the game to refer to him as). He may feel he has failed, and thus wants to rid the universe of said failure.

I think we can put him the Blue & Orange Morality category anyway, seeing how he IS an alien, and an ancient one at that.
#3rucchipunchPosted 9/30/2012 11:19:38 PM(edited)
I actually made a fanfic which replaces Creator with Cid of the Lufaine, the Maenads are Rydia Manikins, and makes Cecil, Golbez and Kain remember the events in Dissidia world. And it still makes sense.
But I deleted it because it becomes too complicated and full of shipping moments between Ceodore and Porom (which Cecil supports because they remind him of Lightning's story about a teen whom she cares about so much)
Incorporating Dissidia's plot points in TAY is fun to do, though. Like how I made Cecil goes all furious about Bartz, or Golbez and Kain making a "you suck" speech to CotL and Shinryu.

Also for why didn't Edge ordered one of the ninjas to spy Cecil and/or Kain? For Kain, Tsukinowa was just stalking Porom around, but at least he knows about Kain from one of NPC. As for Cecil, at the time he sent the ninjas Cecil hadn't brainwashed yet.
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- Official Drossel K. Schall of every Tales of boards -
Falcom husbandos are the best husbandos~
#4evillockePosted 10/9/2012 5:32:41 PM
Takari! I liked your LP!
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#5Absolute23Posted 10/10/2012 6:36:20 PM
I always saw the Maenads personality (blunt, disregarding of lowerlife forms, alittle rude) as the Creator's actual personality, in that he is speaking through them. Its like how the Golbez you see for most of FFIV is really Zemus acting through Golbez. Note that while the Maenads think of them as superior and CONSTANTLY tell the party that, at the end when the party is escaping the creator, they don't go 'Crap, we have no choice. Here, lower lifeforms, take care of this girl who is so much better than you.' Instead, they sound sincere and concerned.

Although, i feel the Creator's name is lame and unoriginal. He made of made the Maenads, crystals and moon, but he didn't create the blue planet and its people. They could have given him a better name.

Also, i feel they dropped the ball explaining some things about the Creator to FFIV. Like, we just accept that the first chunk of the True Moon is a duplicate of the Red Moon to a certain point. Also, why is it called the True Moon? Which came first? Did the Creator send 16 crystals to the Lunarians on their old planet and they used that to craft their moon to escape their planet's destruction? Did Creator know 8 crystals from the Lunarians went to the blue planet?

WHat was the true potential of the crystals? We know the earth crystal was said to have blessed Troia with bountiful forests and fresh water (makes sense as it is the earth crystal)? But did Damcyan's fire crystal create the desert around it? DId Fabul have better ships than Baron because of the wind crystal? And what did the dark crystals do? Where WERE two of the crystals? Can the crystals do more like when they created the interdimensional elevator to transport the giant of babil? And how did the crystals get split up among the nations?

Bascially, i thought they could have done more. I like running scernarios in my head if they made a third game that tied these two together, like the Lunarians being brought to live on earth, the Tower of Zot being an intermediate way to travel from the moon to the earth by lining up with Babil and the crystal palace, more character development for the new characters from TAY, showing the after effects and consequences of Baron's actions after TAY. Imean, you have a owerful nation steal crystals and cause massive destruction, AGAIN. And one NPC in Damcyan mentions that she is still unnerved by Baron's airships even after 17 years. So now most of the planet would hate Baron at this point.
#6gamingratPosted 10/10/2012 7:08:53 PM
As for the two missing Dark Crystals, one (maybe even both of them) could have been in the Tower of Babil.
#7rucchipunchPosted 10/11/2012 2:01:07 AM
My fanfic has them located in a hidden room around Asura and Leviathan's room and inside the cave on the Underworld's side of Agart Mountain.

That's my theory, though <3

Because Duodecim introduced the idea of every FF universes are connected through The Rift, maybe that's where the Creator came from? Someone on TvTropes suggested that Creator is, in fact, The Maker from XIII-verse. And TAY gang defeated it caused XIII-verse to become such a mess we know and hate.
Though I still love my own idea of it being Cid of the Lufaine who went insane again after Scenario 000. Or someone from Onrac would be nice too.

As for TAY sequel, if there's one, I just want Edge to learn Rydia's true age and sentenced for being a pedophile. Okay the last one might be too cruel but really. I, like how Kefka said it, HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE the idea of romantic Edge/Rydia. Rydia just being a bro for him (Inferno scene is very bro-tastic IMO), and that's it.

And please, don't make Kain the poster child of Forever Alone forever. He failed on Rosa AND Cecil; Rydia cares but only because she's just too kind; Edge and Edward are straight as an arrow; it's Dark Kain who was teased with Porom, not the real one; Dark Kain is inside him forever; Ceodore is just admire him in platonic way; Ursula is monks-sexual; Golbez dies/is wandering through the space; Cuore is too na´ve and doesn't know "birds and bees" yet; Palom has his own harem with his sister, Luca, and Leonora; Harley who? Oh, you mean Edward's secretary who behaves like Twilight Saga's Bella?; Barbarricia dies and is clearly a lesbian (kudos for those who get the reference); any OCs might be resulted in Mary Sue accusations.....
....would you bang the dolls, Kain?
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- Official Drossel K. Schall of every Tales of boards -
Falcom husbandos are the best husbandos~