Xilia, Graces F, and Vesperia

#21DXMGPosted 2/28/2014 11:18:46 AM
Xillia - very good. Feels a bit too easy at times, and doesnt really do anything that stands out to me, but it is a solid story, some memorable characters ( and some completely forgettable ones) and a fun, fast battle system.

Vesperia - Great. Has standout cast of characters, combat, world/dungeon design. PS3 version has a ludicrous amount of side content as well. PLus the Telescopic Graveyard, my personal favorite EX dungeon evarrr. Linking a 9 hit basic into 6 artes into OVL for 6-8 more into a Burst Arte into an MA is immensely fun. O_O

Graces f - Great. Does some wacky things with the LMBS, and they all end up good. Can be mashy or strategic as you like. Has the most memorable characters for me, even if I dont like them all as much as the cast of Vesperia... they are all very unique individuals. Best skits of the three, especially in the F-arc. Has almost as much (and as awesome) side/post content as Vesperia.

My personal order for these three, taking into account things I probably didnt mention above is this:

1. Vesperia
2. Graces f
3. Xillia

In the overall order of my favorites of the Tales I have played:

1. Abyss
2. Vesperia
3. Graces f
4. Xillia
5. Symphonia
6. Destiny (ps1)
7. Desinty II (NA ps1)
8. Legendia
---
Medic!
#22XenonPosted 2/28/2014 5:11:01 PM
I'm only halfway through Xillia, so this may change, but right now...

Graces f > Xillia > Vesperia

Graces f: Battle system felt unique, story was interesting, characters were likable. But yeah it's a cheesy as hell friendship solves everything story and several if not all the characters are plain cliches.

Xillia: So far it's fun and has a good cast. Story is simple enough but well told.

Vesperia: I know other people love this cast, but I just have no affection for them at all. Vesperia was a solid game, but it's the most middle of the road in the series for me. Completely forgettable with a pretty bad plot line, its fans love the characters, but since I don't, there's not a lot here. It doesn't screw a lot up, mind you, but that's not enough. Also, the Ms. Fanservice of this game has the same name as my mother and is therefore ruined for me. =\

Overall...

1. Abyss
2. Destiny (though I haven't played this since the 90s)
3. Symphonia
4. Graces f
5. Xillia
6. Vesperia
7. Legendia
8. Eternia (Destiny II in usa)

I should play that Tales from the New world that's been on my shelf for five years.
---
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.-C.S.Lewis
-Xenon
#23thondamPosted 2/28/2014 5:47:39 PM
zhaoyun99 posted...
thondam posted...
zhaoyun99 posted...
LOL, no, if anything, Yuri could dish out damage extremely fast and some of his attack like Ghost Wolf require usage like 200 time to make cancel easier. Also, he got a very good running speed as later on (Thanks to the key item.) Combining with his super chain skills, he could basically cancel to everything even w/o OVL. If anything, he got fastest standing and ground normals, all of his shining fang related skill. Base Shining Fang can even guard cancel after 200 uses. He could even chain his Free Run attack after his 6 hit standing normals (Yes, has to be real fast to pull that out but most of the time very consistent w/o getting the counter to reset). The problem here is WHICH skill was the most effective. All of his shining fang relate skill have quick startup and recovery skill, his projectiles like Azure Edge, Azure Storm, Final Gale and Frigid Blast also have quick startup and safe, Not to mention the PS3 ver. added Manual cancel. Need me to mention Dhaos Blast and Guardian Field too? His running speed can only be bested by Repede or Judith. Later on, you can even learn the Tension skill which make the shinning fang trio skills even more ridiculous because by the end of those combos, he got OVL which mean he said b***** please to the recovery time.


This isn't about what Yuri can do. Plain and simple, Vesperia's system is slower compared to other 3D systems of the same caliber. Doesn't make it "bad" by any means. The attacks are super-smooth animation-wise compared to Xillia/Graces, but in exchange, everything just takes longer. Longer may be only 1.5 more frames longer, but that makes a big difference in the long run. This is obviously apparent when you fight the first Zagi.


I don't know what the slightest idea that you think Vesperia was slower overall considering Vesperia was also heavy on frame cancel and talking about the animation duration was very different depend on each character. You used the first Zagi which basically IN THE BEGINNING while most Tales of games always have a slow start. Vesperia proved that they can be as fast with the game at the same caliber with Repede. Also, Graces f was fast thanks to accel mode but that speed was like the same as Repede with all of his speed up skills equipped on. Now compare to the 3rd Zagi fight was like a different matter.


Comparing the entire Graces/half of the Xillia cast to Vesperia's fastest character? What about everyone else? I was using the first Zagi fight as an example, simply because it bluntly demonstrates the speed of the game. The characters don't get any faster(who knows what Agility does =01), they only get more attacking options via skills, but their speed doesn't change. Just the fact that Xillia/Graces's quick-stepping is much more advanced gives more freedom of movement which also equates to speed, but even not considering that, like I said before, the # of frames for an animation is longer in general in Vesperia, which means its slower. Look at Sophie's Triple Strike compared to Yuri's Cerberus Strike. You gonna tell me that, despite doing the same animation for it that Vesperia's is the same speed (O.o)?
#24zhaoyun99Posted 3/1/2014 1:26:48 AM
thondam posted...
zhaoyun99 posted...
thondam posted...
zhaoyun99 posted...
LOL, no, if anything, Yuri could dish out damage extremely fast and some of his attack like Ghost Wolf require usage like 200 time to make cancel easier. Also, he got a very good running speed as later on (Thanks to the key item.) Combining with his super chain skills, he could basically cancel to everything even w/o OVL. If anything, he got fastest standing and ground normals, all of his shining fang related skill. Base Shining Fang can even guard cancel after 200 uses. He could even chain his Free Run attack after his 6 hit standing normals (Yes, has to be real fast to pull that out but most of the time very consistent w/o getting the counter to reset). The problem here is WHICH skill was the most effective. All of his shining fang relate skill have quick startup and recovery skill, his projectiles like Azure Edge, Azure Storm, Final Gale and Frigid Blast also have quick startup and safe, Not to mention the PS3 ver. added Manual cancel. Need me to mention Dhaos Blast and Guardian Field too? His running speed can only be bested by Repede or Judith. Later on, you can even learn the Tension skill which make the shinning fang trio skills even more ridiculous because by the end of those combos, he got OVL which mean he said b***** please to the recovery time.





Comparing the entire Graces/half of the Xillia cast to Vesperia's fastest character? What about everyone else? I was using the first Zagi fight as an example, simply because it bluntly demonstrates the speed of the game. The characters don't get any faster(who knows what Agility does =01), they only get more attacking options via skills, but their speed doesn't change. Just the fact that Xillia/Graces's quick-stepping is much more advanced gives more freedom of movement which also equates to speed, but even not considering that, like I said before, the # of frames for an animation is longer in general in Vesperia, which means its slower. Look at Sophie's Triple Strike compared to Yuri's Cerberus Strike. You gonna tell me that, despite doing the same animation for it that Vesperia's is the same speed (O.o)?


Oh no, like I said before, the frame rate and duration depend on which kind of character you are using to. You said the speed didn't get any faster but later on the game when you get the boot key item, better agility, Skill and OVL. Also, you are comparing a 2 different style. Yuri is a multi hit combo oriented which had long duration animation but deal high number of hits in a short amount of time (Also, Yuri have a habit of charge his last punch) while Sophie was basically Speed oriented so she needed more short animation arte to be able to link the art together like Repede but in a different way. Also, you didn't count the upgrade ver. of Cerberus Strike aka Brutal Fang which you had to mash button at lightning speed to be able to get the most of hits and each frame of those fast punches are way faster than Sanzan. Also, like my first sentence, it's entirely depend on the character when it comes to the # of frame. Let's see Raven's Rain, Rain Song, Crime, Azure Heaven or Love Shot are very quick and precise compare to his overall slow-ish speed. You also contradict your argument by also using a speed character (Sophie) like Repede and compare to Yuri. So you don't want me to use Repede yet you used Sophie?
---
"Another has fallen to my spear!!!" Zhao Yun
#25StankymooPosted 3/1/2014 1:44:12 AM
DBogatz posted...
I dropped it midway through and can't convince myself to pick it back up.


Graces sits on my shelf, mocking me. No, I will never finish you, you Easter colored piece of tripe.
---
HighOnPhazon on Diablo 3: "The future of video games guys, pay to buy it, play on developers terms, then pay to win!"
#26thondamPosted 3/1/2014 8:16:25 AM(edited)
zhaoyun99 posted...
Oh no, like I said before, the frame rate and duration depend on which kind of character you are using to. You said the speed didn't get any faster but later on the game when you get the boot key item, better agility, Skill and OVL. Also, you are comparing a 2 different style. Yuri is a multi hit combo oriented which had long duration animation but deal high number of hits in a short amount of time (Also, Yuri have a habit of charge his last punch) while Sophie was basically Speed oriented so she needed more short animation arte to be able to link the art together like Repede but in a different way. Also, you didn't count the upgrade ver. of Cerberus Strike aka Brutal Fang which you had to mash button at lightning speed to be able to get the most of hits and each frame of those fast punches are way faster than Sanzan. Also, like my first sentence, it's entirely depend on the character when it comes to the # of frame. Let's see Raven's Rain, Rain Song, Crime, Azure Heaven or Love Shot are very quick and precise compare to his overall slow-ish speed. You also contradict your argument by also using a speed character (Sophie) like Repede and compare to Yuri. So you don't want me to use Repede yet you used Sophie?


First off, I didn't contradict myself, since Asbel's and Hubert's attack speeds are practically equal to Sophie's(the attack speed btw chars in Vesperia has a much wider gap). Type of char doesn't matter; they use the same arte and is performed the same way. Can't use Brutal Fang as an example because it isn't Cerberus/Triple Strike. Give Sophie the same move, and she will still outperform Yuri using it(think Solomus). I wouldn't say Yuri is multi-hit combo oriented either; just combo oriented. It's apparent they focused on making him look "cool" when attacking over speed, HOWEVER, Yuri, in his own game is one of the faster characters in comparison to other party members. Nonetheless, I'll give you the frame rate/animation argument, but I will say this; because Vesperia's normal movement options are so slow, it makes the battles in general feel slower in comparison to the Xillia/Graces f, where I can zoom around the battlefield after any attack. Repede feels fast because his normal speed is fast, you can encircle the enemy quickly and stuff like that, but I can't say the same for everyone else, sans Judy in the air.
#27zhaoyun99Posted 3/1/2014 10:34:09 AM
thondam posted...
zhaoyun99 posted...
Oh no, like I said before, the frame rate and duration depend on which kind of character you are using to. You said the speed didn't get any faster but later on the game when you get the boot key item, better agility, Skill and OVL. Also, you are comparing a 2 different style. Yuri is a multi hit combo oriented which had long duration animation but deal high number of hits in a short amount of time (Also, Yuri have a habit of charge his last punch) while Sophie was basically Speed oriented so she needed more short animation arte to be able to link the art together like Repede but in a different way. Also, you didn't count the upgrade ver. of Cerberus Strike aka Brutal Fang which you had to mash button at lightning speed to be able to get the most of hits and each frame of those fast punches are way faster than Sanzan. Also, like my first sentence, it's entirely depend on the character when it comes to the # of frame. Let's see Raven's Rain, Rain Song, Crime, Azure Heaven or Love Shot are very quick and precise compare to his overall slow-ish speed. You also contradict your argument by also using a speed character (Sophie) like Repede and compare to Yuri. So you don't want me to use Repede yet you used Sophie?


First off, I didn't contradict myself, since Asbel's and Hubert's attack speeds are practically equal to Sophie's(the attack speed btw chars in Vesperia has a much wider gap). Type of char doesn't matter; they use the same arte and is performed the same way. Can't use Brutal Fang as an example because it isn't Cerberus/Triple Strike. Give Sophie the same move, and she will still outperform Yuri using it(think Solomus). I wouldn't say Yuri is multi-hit combo oriented either; just combo oriented. It's apparent they focused on making him look "cool" when attacking over speed, HOWEVER, Yuri, in his own game is one of the faster characters in comparison to other party members. Nonetheless, I'll give you the frame rate/animation argument, but I will say this; because Vesperia's normal movement options are so slow, it makes the battles in general feel slower in comparison to the Xillia/Graces f, where I can zoom around the battlefield after any attack. Repede feels fast because his normal speed is fast, you can encircle the enemy quickly and stuff like that, but I can't say the same for everyone else, sans Judy in the air.


The Normals attacks also entirely depend on the character and there are only 2 characters in Vesperia that could link Normals to free run: Yuri and Repede. The reason I called Yuri's a multi-hit with high damage due to his Shining Fang, Shining Fang Dragon Swarm, Shining Fang Drop, Dragon Swarm, Brutal Fang, and Savage Wolf Fury (you can even mash button to extend his MA to show his ultrasonic attack speed.) Another one with high speed was Ghost Wolf because it was basically the same as Hulbert's Kuha Sensougen but Yuri finish his animation WAY FASTER. Also, Repede can also be faster thanks to his increase speed skill during OVL (Which increase both running and attack speed.) I give you the movement speed but only because they basically ditch Free Run for side-stepping (Free Run is in Graces F but got penalized for using it.)
---
"Another has fallen to my spear!!!" Zhao Yun
#28EtherealistPosted 3/1/2014 5:05:44 PM
Graces>>>Hearts R>Innocence R>>>>>>Vesperia PS3>Vesperia 360=Xillia

Graces hooked me right from the start with its gameplay. After being severely let down by Vesperia's traditional, somewhat restrictive combat engine, I was happy to see a Team Destiny style battle system again.

While Xillia's combat sounded MUCH better than Vesperia on paper, I actually like it less because of the lazy boss mechanics and easily cheez-able mobs. When fighting, I'm not supposed to feel helpless, nor am I supposed to feel like a god. I'm supposed to be in the middle ground, that is, challenged. Xillia didn't do that. Thankfully I'm hearing a lot of good things about the sequel, and this generation's handheld remakes were rather nice (although they could have used better production values and, in the case of Hearts, embraced a little more of the source materials' battle system).

I'm in the minority that actually liked the story in Graces overall, and I vastly prefer it to Vesperia and Xillia's stories in spite of its flaws. Was it more predictable? Yeah. Was it subtle? No, not really. But it didn't pull a giant space monster out of nowhere, nor did it throw away most of its unique ideas for signature Tales tropes like spirits and mana during the tail-end of the game like Vesperia did. Xillia just... bored me. It's like they picked a bunch of ideas from past Tales games and reimagined them to be less interesting. Giant weapon? Check. Spirits? Check. Clash of ideals? Check.

However, I did have some issues with Graces...

-Asbel, Sophie, and Hubert did a great job in bringing out the battle system's strengths. Sadly, Pascal, Malik, Richard, and Cheria all felt similar because all of their B Artes were limited exclusively to spells.

-I wish you could set A-Artes freely like you could with B-Artes.

-The villain's exposition is embarrassingly lazy. As far as the narrative goes, it's its biggest flaw.

-I wish Malik and Pascal were more connected to the story. They kind of got shafted.

-The Future arc is boring. I beat it once and never went back.

-Nearly every English VA in the game had already been in at LEAST one Tales game at some point. The direction and acting were better than in Xillia, but some new voices would have been nice.

-Music was meh aside from a few of the battle themes.
---
"You can laugh, you can cry, you can express yourself, but please don't hurt each other." -Tommy Wiseau
Currently playing: ALBW, ToP NDX, ToR
#29_Itachi_Uchiha_Posted 3/1/2014 7:14:15 PM
beautheschmo posted...
Graces>Vesperia>Xillia

Xillia I felt had too many fundamental design issues almost across the board to be a good game. I had my fun with it, and I wouldn't have bought it twice (JP and NA versions) if I didn't think it was worth it, but it's really sort of middle-of-the-road for the series.

Vesperia I like. I have some mostly minor issues with the gameplay like the obscenely slow attack speeds and annoying enemy AI, but overall it's a really solid title.

Graces is either my favorite or 2nd-favorite in the series, behind Abyss. I just like everything about it. The story is kind of mediocre but the characters are awesome, although I've always been a huge fan of camp and cheese. I also think Adam West was the best Batman, so yeah.


I agree with this order. Symphonia still takes the cake as my favorite Tales game, but Graces isn't far behind.
---
YMTFB
#30Sir WillPosted 3/2/2014 12:30:57 AM
Graces > Vesperia = Xillia

Graces is my favorite, just because of the battle system. I admit, the character are a little meh, besides Pascal. And the story is weak. But I just love the gameplay so much. And the title system is fun. Casting can be fun! I never would have guessed Pascal would be my fav to use.

Xillia, closer to the old battle system but still with it's own charms and more attack potential with the AC (I'm sure you could string together attacks well in the other games but tbh I'm not great at comboing the artes that well). Characters are pretty good. Story's fine. I like the grid and equipping skills a lot. Again, casting can be fun. I never thought I'd like Rowen as much as I did. My only complaint is the spell imbalance. A couple of spells are far superior to the others, at least in my experience.

Vesperia. Executes the old battle style the best. Great characters, pretty good story. I like equipping skills but you don't get enough points. You can equip the needed stuff and have nothing left over for any of the more situational ones.
---
River Song: Well, I was off to this gay gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled when I thought 'Gosh, the Third Reich's a bit rubbish, I think i'll kill the Fuhrer'