to everyone who says boses breaking out of combos is BS

#21MarioakPosted 1/10/2013 7:37:07 PM
Rowen is still good to go if you play as him or use short-cut to control him (His ability is a bit broken), But left AI to handle him is the worst.
He is incredible good in TOX2 due to weakness system.

Leia is suppose to be the fast characters (Confirm in TOX2, She will give you a agi (or eva? I forgot) skill book), Yet has the worst moveset and slow animation will make her get counter by 'boss breaking combo' before she going to finished her arte most of the time. (A lot of her arte have a lot of delay long animation, The AC system isn't helping much either)

Elise with Tippo-Off could melee better then her >_>

Only Shunjinsou and Kasshinkon Waltz are properly her good attack arte. Both are fast and the latter can attack almost instant and pretty good wide attack for melee arte, Good damage and only have alittdelay. But it's get nerf in the 2nd game DX
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#22KryptoPyro13Posted 1/10/2013 8:35:33 PM
frubam posted...
SieKensou posted...
frubam posted...
The original ToS also had a nice system regarding combo breakage; at 50 hits, the enemy will auto fall down and be unstaggerable until they completely get up(and renewed Penetrate for those bosses that had it).

TotA had a great system as well; the enemy's recovery time would decrease as you gain more hits on it, making hits of 50+ rather difficult.


same as the burst thing that ppl are complaining about... >.>


It's not the same. I've heard that you can only combo 5-10 hits off of the boss before they break out. That's very small compared to 50-ish hits. In TotA, there is a limitation, but it's reasonable, being able to get 2, maybe 3 full chains of attack off before the enemy's recovery time is reduced by 90%. Same with ToS(replacing 'enemy stagger time reduction' with 'fall+penetrate after 50 hits). In Xillia, it's said that before you've finished even your first chain, the boss breaks out.


You can even lift the enemies with Photon and Grand Cross (and I think Absolute?).
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#23darkzero16Posted 1/11/2013 6:50:12 AM
From: MasterLL | #019
Hey... Rowen is great support character in Xillia 1 and 2....

He's always in my party since my fighting style kind of breaks the game somewhat in Xillia.. while in Xillia 2.. he can make it broken without even needing Ludger in the party at all.


lulz Rowen fan spotted. I'll mix and match when I get the game myself. When playing with my friend he always left Rowen out and all this talk about him being weaker than Milla doesn't paint him in good light. Though it makes sense. The guy is pretty old.

From: Marioak | #021
Rowen is still good to go if you play as him or use short-cut to control him (His ability is a bit broken), But left AI to handle him is the worst.
He is incredible good in TOX2 due to weakness system.


Story of every characters life. I'll be sure to keep that in mind though. Using everyone will be easier in this game ^_^

Leia is suppose to be the fast characters (Confirm in TOX2, She will give you a agi (or eva? I forgot) skill book), Yet has the worst moveset and slow animation will make her get counter by 'boss breaking combo' before she going to finished her arte most of the time. (A lot of her arte have a lot of delay long animation, The AC system isn't helping much either)

Elise with Tippo-Off could melee better then her >_>


Ima main Leia to help heal her suffering. That bold hurts me.

From: KryptoPyro13 | #022
You can even lift the enemies with Photon and Grand Cross (and I think Absolute?).


Made Raine Epic in ToS ^_^
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#24Rellik NomedPosted 1/12/2013 4:58:33 PM(edited)
I know I'm beating a dead horse, but linking to that video does not support your argument very well.

First off, Omegaevolution is not your average gamer. I'm pretty sure 80% of the people here wouldn't be able to pull off those combos even with the same gear and stats.

Second, he's practically playing with a completely maxed character. Your argument should be based around something like a normal story boss being infinited with low level characters rather than New Game+ material. I can find tons of videos of end-game characters soloing bosses with infinites for games like ToD:R, ToGf, ToR, etc. Doesn't mean their battle systems are easily exploitable or "not challenging." Heck I have a maxed Asbel with 1999 on all stats, 9999 HP, and 30 CC yet I can't pull off a lot of the crazy stuff on youtube.

Lastly, I don't believe Xillia's system is the solution to the problem. Like Rpgmonkey said, there should be a medium between the two that allows for comboing but also takes care of exploits. I kind of liked the Penetration system used in ToD:R; something where you have to play defensively until you break the boss' shield. Only then are you allowed to combo away until the boss sets up another Penetrate barrier. Xillia 2, from what I hear, seems to alleviate this problem with the weakness system extending combos.

I'm only posting this because I'm tired of people claiming a battle system is "broken" when they link to New Game+ files with maxed characters. Someone did this on the Tales of Graces f boards using a video of them mashing only X on Chaos with a clearly broken Cheria.
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#25darkzero16Posted 1/12/2013 5:48:43 PM
From: Rellik Nomed | #024
Someone did this on the Tales of Graces f boards using a video of them mashing only X on Chaos with a clearly broken Cheria.


In the arena right? Rather not remember those days
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#26XxHAVIC101xXPosted 1/13/2013 12:56:34 AM
Now I haven't played Xillia yet, but from what I have seen it seems as if the creators wanted to shift the focus of the fighting away from combos. Personally I'm going to be taking a much more defensive fighting style when I play this one. Maybe for this game players are meant to focus less on landing lots of hits and doing big damage, and more on keeping yourself alive and outlasting the bosses. If the bosses are breaking out of your combos you will be doing less damage, so instead focus on taking less damage and recovering what you do take. For example, melee characters defending/avoiding attacks, striking when they have the opportunity, and making sure they have time to reduce/avoid damage when the boss strikes back. Magic users can do what they've been doing so long as the boss is focused on the frontliners. As long as you are doing steady damage and the boss can't finish you off no matter what, you are going to win the battle. People might have been more accepting of how bosses work if their goal was to "endure and outlast the enemies until they fall" instead of "do as much damage as you can as quickly as possible to beat them." If people think about things this way, then maybe it wouldn't seem so much like a chore. At least that's how I view it, and that's how I'm going to play it. Gotta try to adapt and make different strategies.
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#27MarioakPosted 1/13/2013 1:44:55 AM
XxHAVIC101xX posted...
Now I haven't played Xillia yet, but from what I have seen it seems as if the creators wanted to shift the focus of the fighting away from combos.


Actually the whole AC system is meant to be for combo...It's even more broken then CC since AC almost instant recover after you stop attacking about 0.5 sec, This properly make creator try to balance by putting random "Boss Breaking Combo", Not really a good idea considering a lot of people didn't like it.

It's possible to do infinity combo even your playtime just clocked only 1 hr.

The normal battle in this game is incredible easy due to AC system. The normal enemy is pretty weak, low HP, low ATK and most of them still have the same old attack pattern since Abyss.
It's just that easy that "Just mash X/O to win" is almost usable.

But then here come Bosses,
Lot of them are pretty cheap. BBC aside, they could spam arte over and over again and go overlimit whenever they want. (Unlike you, The game pretty much force you to abuse Link system for a lot of things.)
And if the said bosses can heal themselves and you are playing on higher difficult without overlevel + overpower weapon? Good luck with that.

But I personally like the boss gimmick. lol
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#28darkzero16Posted 1/13/2013 6:50:35 AM
From: Marioak | #027
And if the said bosses can heal themselves and you are playing on higher difficult without overlevel + overpower weapon? Good luck with that.


HYPE!!!!!!!!!!
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#29RpgmonkeyPosted 1/13/2013 8:23:52 AM
Well the problem with Xillia's boss design is that it encourages a somewhat slower, more defensive style of play, when the game mechanics are built to encourage being more aggressive and/or making elaborate combos.

If they wanted to create a Tales game that focuses more on strategy, defensive play, and resource management, with attacks that are slower and don't rack up large combos, they should have used Rebirth or something for inspiration. Instead the game mainly takes from how Vesperia, Graces, and Hearts were designed, and all three emphasized racking up combos.

This works fine for most normal enemies, but Xillia's combat design is noticeably lop-sided because the bosses are at odds with the style they went for, and you're basically punished for fighting bosses in a manner that emphasizes combos, despite the way the game mechanics work.

Xillia 2 takes what was there and applies it in a way that's much more in line with what they wanted from Xillia's battle system however, as said. The combo breaking is still there, but the weakness system now allows you to build worthwhile combos on bosses, and take better advantage of what the game offers without punishing you for it.
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#30MasterLLPosted 1/13/2013 8:48:36 AM
Marioak posted...
And if the said bosses can heal themselves and you are playing on higher difficult without overlevel + overpower weapon? Good luck with that.


Steal their healing items and they can't item heal (or have the amount reduced drastically).
The game specifically tells you that.
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