Infusion Monster Builds; Now hijacked to be BMSirius' special project; Thread 4

#471Noah_IvaldiPosted 4/17/2012 2:25:43 AM
Now that that's hopefully over (but probably not -_-), allow me to restate the important stuff:

Is Marathoner, in fact, useful to a chocobo with 800 MAG? If so, it absolutely must be added.
If it's not, only chocobos that can naturally reach 800+/800+ will be considered as optimal, which is just Silver, Red, and White. This is not considering strat ability differences, which, as all of you are neglecting to admit, may put Red down. I am not mentioning White's ability gimp, because that is obvious and has been gone over; White will never be a top-tier candidate.
If it is useful to an 800 MAG chocobo, it is absolutely imperitive for an optimal chocobo build. Because stamina is basically an all-or-nothing deal, it stands that Marathoner may be powerful enough to allow for a chocobo with less MAG, such as Golden. If so, that opens up statistical possibilities for every chocobo, because they can all be built to have 800+ STR and as much MAG as Golden or more, something else that you're all neglecting.
I need at least two tests on Marathoner. I need confirmation that it makes a difference to an 800+ MAG chocobo, any difference at all, and I need to know whether or not it is sufficient to make Golden never run out of stamina.
If Golden ever does, by about how many seconds (accurate up to tenths at least, please) before the end of the race? Test with Golden at 800+ STR and about 700 MAG by using mana materials at the right levels (which I can list if it comes to this) and see if it's enough.

Of course, I also need the results of the tests that I mentioned for strat abilities, as I established a few pages ago, but have been getting flooded a bit by all the chocobo tiering rubbish. . . It's post 428, for anyone who's willing to help. Anyone could do this testing. . .
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#472FF13_2_DriftPosted 4/17/2012 9:16:32 AM
MARATHONER TEST

Brand New Lv99 Red Chocobo (mana essences Lv61-67): 5850, 909, 807

Had Lightning Bolt and Sprinter. Only ran 1200 and 1800M races (negating Sprinter.) Always Lightning Bolt strategy. Never limped in 1200M races.

First Career:
1800M Orphan Derby: Limped at end, managed to eke out a win.

1800M Pulse Cup: used 2x chocoboost to go from poorest condition to fair condition. *-choco Wild Fang. I was not ranked at all with 10.6 odds. Got Sprinting Start and was Slow Pace race, so got L.bolt boost. Limped at end. Came in 3rd at 2:24.77. Wild Fang won.


Second Career:
ADDED Lv5 Microchu = Marathoner.

1800M Orphan Derby: poor condition, average pace/no boost, Sprinting Start, limped at end, 2nd place.

1800M Pulse Cup: used items to get to top condition. *-choco Lightning Rose. Not ranked with 6.2 odds. Sprinting Start, average pace/no boost. Limped at end. Barely won at 2:24:34. Lighting Rose 7th.


tl;dr @800Mag limped with and without Marathoner on 1800M races even with top condition.
#473JordanLind7Posted 4/17/2012 9:50:43 AM

Off-Topic: I thought i'd be mr. tough guy and make a build to actually make Dreadnought useful.  Boy was I wrong.  I tested him on Profo Fal'cie Adam (Paradox Scope) and it turned a 40 second fight into a 3 minute fight.  He's rediculously useless now that I think about it.  Back to the drawing board.

#474MyBigToeHurtsPosted 4/17/2012 10:03:41 AM
JordanLind7 posted...
Off-Topic: I thought i'd be mr. tough guy and make a build to actually make Dreadnought useful. Boy was I wrong. I tested him on Profo Fal'cie Adam (Paradox Scope) and it turned a 40 second fight into a 3 minute fight. He's rediculously useless now that I think about it. Back to the drawing board.

Steampunk'd <^.^>b
#475JordanLind7Posted 4/17/2012 10:25:32 AM

I do have a trick up my sleeve.  Lucidon, I have seen has got no credit what-so-ever in any build forum.  If maxed out solely with Power Material, he wields an incredible 1563 Strength (after Passives) And his only red-locked passive is Ally KO: Power Surge, allowing 9 slots for Passives.  He does lack any extra feeder or chaser abilities, besides Shell Feeder which isn't great, but I did test his attacking speed while I have been leveling him, and it's about a little faster than half of Chichu's speed, but isn't Dreadnought horrible.  Thankfully, his magic stat is only 233, while his power could be 1563, so I do not have to worry about his Horrible casting speed.  He also naturally Halves Physical/Magical/All Ailments, and is Resistant to All Ailments making him more of an off tank build.  I need to gather 177 Power Generators and do further testing before I decide if he's worthy enough for me to do a full build and post him here, but It's just a thought.  I'm looking to do my own little project of building under-used monsters, hence my Red Chocobo build earlier in the topic.

#476JoloStukiPosted 4/17/2012 10:43:18 AM
I'd like to take this moment to step back a minute:

Noah_Ivaldi: I'm going to put my thoughts point-form and try to be concise. A million posts per thought can get frustrating (I don't think I have to tell you XD)

1) Thank you for clarifying what the intention of the guide is. BMS' posts and yours suggest that this is not a "varied" build guide, but a "best" build guide.

2) The Narashima topic seems to be misconstrued. My intention wasn't to say, "you're some dumb nub who thinks Narashima is the best COM", my point was that if somebody *wants* a specific monster build, all they have to do is ask, and you or another builder will generously plot out a build for that monster simply to be helpful and kind, and can do it a million times faster than I can.

3) I understand, there is only one specific build. My comment about 9 builds was probably just poorly worded: I'll say my point more concisely in bold to draw attention to it, not to condescend:

9 Builds is only necessary because of your aforementioned statement that each chocobo has a different starter. I should have been more specific. There really only needs to be one build, but I suggest 9 paths to achieving that build: one for each COLOUR of Chocobo - for preference.

4) Health Nut: That is actually an excellent point. In looking for raw-power, I overlooked the subtle increases in performance that a top-health Chocobo would need to help dominate. In that case, Dark Horse, being completely eliminated from my potential top ten, Health Nut could take its place. Luckily this still doesn't pose a problem to Silver Chocobo, as he's got 9 slots.

5) I basically agree with the rest of your statements. Hopefully my reiteration of my point with better clarity makes more sense. There must be a way to condense the instructions for each chocobo's coloured build.

6) Now, I do disagree with Chocobo colour being a "stupid question", even though I worded it exactly like your "Hoplite > Chichu" question. I just think that colour-choice is a big part of what having an ePeen monster is for - since that's essentially what we're building, and it's not accomplishing anything of note end-game.

If it's alright with you, I wouldn't mind spending a little time on builds to get each chocobo up to 5000/800/800, and worrying about abilities later - at least that way we have a base for each Chocobo. I put in the work to what you find redundant, and the peices fall together.

If Silver is the uber, make a "top-tier" section for Racing, and put a "Rainbow of Runners-Up" section beneath it with the "less favourable" builds for those who love the colour Purple, and whatnot.
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#477JoloStukiPosted 4/17/2012 10:44:43 AM
So hopefully that clears up my comment. I'm not looking at optimizing each chocobo individually. I just want to help you figure out one *perfect* build, and figure out how to make each Chocobo competent enough to USE it.
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#478MyBigToeHurtsPosted 4/17/2012 1:00:50 PM
If you built each of these wonderfully different colored Chocobos, and used them in their optimal setup for racing at peak gameplay of their abilities....which color would be the fastest?

* Sorry, had to kekekekekekeke
#479caim1185Posted 4/17/2012 1:24:27 PM
@JordanLind7 : I have a lucidon fully build on power material , and to be honnest , i'm not very happy with him . He is a very tough guy (90% resist to debuff,halve all type of damage),but lik you said, he has nothing special beside shell feeder ,not even a bltiz move , he can only target one foe at a time .

And he is really slow , i think chichu is twice as fast easily , even worse,like omega he need to "reposition " himself every time he target a different monster and it can take a while .
Funny fact,unlike you i consider his casting speed quite fast and seeing him repeatedly stomping the ground every time he launch a ruin is quite amusing .
#480BMSirius(Topic Creator)Posted 4/17/2012 2:24:55 PM
@Taly: Gilgamesh resistance testing is something I'd like to see as well.

I see what you're saying about Typhon vs Gilgamesh. The difference in that Gilgamesh's Feral Link is longer and more damaging, while Typhon's primary advantage is Daze which doesn't work on most bosses - other than that, it is faster (not as good for Stagger gauge freezing) and less damaging. Thus, Gilgamesh's build has HP and Feral Speed II, while Typhon (who has less of a need for Feral Speed II) can go with the superior defenses of Resist Physical and Magic because he has TWO slots available. The difference in choice is based entirely in the merit of the Feral Link.

The CBBII thing wasn't directed at you Taly, it was directed at the multitude of people who were talking about it.

For gunzwei's build, I just wanted people to see it. I was wondering mostly if anybody saw any merit to Auto-Haste, but... I dunno, although someone like Typhon might help speed up the average player, there are two problems: 1. You have to use a different COM to kill the UFO because he is too sow, and 2. The absolute best speedruns don't even bother to kill the initial PuPus at all, nullifying the point entirely.

@Noah: For Typhon and Gil, how about a boss-based build with random encounter alts?

That is what I decided on even before you posted, and you can see it in the guide as such. Let me know if you have any further suggestions (besides grammar stuffs which I WILL address).

I'm still on the fence for First Strike on Typhon. I am honestly somewhat inclined to do Auto-Faith and First Strike on my Typhon EVEN if its not for PuPu. If I'm gonna bother to make something for random battles, then it SHOULD be about lowering times, so First Strike would be good. Then again, Auto-Faith and Feral Speed II would be even better... It's one of those things like choosing MED or SEN skills - pick the LEAST superfluous choice. Sigh. So, yeah, I'm still looking for thoughts on it...

The Kill: ATB Charge thing is unfortunately irrelevant because Typhon's speed sucks too much to fight the UFO - he needs to be switched out to let a faster monster kill the UFO.

Here's the guide link again for convenience:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73219112/Monster%20Builds.txt

If everyone, even the Choco racer-focused folks, could take a quick look at everything I said above and chime in on that too, I'd be very grateful. After Typhon and Gilgamesh have their build and Alt sections approved for good, the guide will move on to a spelling/grammar phase (assuming that nobody else has any guide criticisms), followed by officially moving on to other tiers (after Choco talk finishes).

Need another post to talk Choco stuff.
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