Just beat XIII again and noticed something...

#81ColonelGuilePosted 5/8/2012 1:43:35 PM
Aquatrez posted...
The problem is that he's defining a plot hole as "anything that is not explained completely and in detail." Many writers intentionally don't give you all the information. I'm curious to see what other works he considers poorly written and riddled with plot holes...


^ This.


I would love to hear his response too... filled with complete BS too i would imagine
#82TGAkumaPosted 5/8/2012 2:58:57 PM
The problem is that he's defining a plot hole as "anything that is not explained completely and in detail." Many writers intentionally don't give you all the information. I'm curious to see what other works he considers poorly written and riddled with plot holes...

Im gonna have to agree with this. I guess he thinks magic is a plothole since it never explains exactly how it is possible in any RPG. There are alot of things in Final Fantasy that just wouldnt happen and he complains that Fang and Vanille both turn into Ragnarok.

This is from the wiki page. And I knew all this my 1st time through the game with no outside source.

"This sparked the War of Transgression 500 years before the game's start, putting both humans on Cocoon and Gran Pulse at odds with each other to ensure Ragnarok's coming. Oerba Dia Vanille and Oerba Yun Fang were selected from the village of Oerba to become Ragnarok and destroy Cocoon. But Vanille never transformed into the beast, forcing Fang to become Ragnarok alone while she fled back to Oerba. However, as Fang's flawed form of Ragnarok managed to leave a huge scar on Cocoon's shell, Etro took pity on the people of Cocoon and drained Ragnarok of power before placing both Vanille and Fang into early Crystal Stasis, their Focus still incomplete. Later, Barthandelus took the Pulse Vestige to Cocoon where they would reawaken 500 years later to finish the job. "

Ive already said this. Only Fang turned into Ragnarok which damaged Cocoon. They were always meant to both turn into Ragnarok.
#83ZEOPOWER6Posted 5/8/2012 4:17:50 PM
MagicTrufflez posted...
Poor storytelling does not equal foreshadowing kids.

You can keep telling yourself that.

I personally don't get why XIII/XIII-2 can get so much flack for having such a 'bad' story while other games that are arguably equally bad/worse get a free pass from their fans.

Seriously, I don't think any FF released in the 'present' is ever going to get praised by the majority at this rate. It's just not possible. There's always something that people are going to nitpick on.
#84emilio_ramponePosted 5/8/2012 4:55:53 PM
ZEOPOWER6 posted...
MagicTrufflez posted...
Poor storytelling does not equal foreshadowing kids.

You can keep telling yourself that.

I personally don't get why XIII/XIII-2 can get so much flack for having such a 'bad' story while other games that are arguably equally bad/worse get a free pass from their fans.*

Seriously, I don't think any FF released in the 'present' is ever going to get praised by the majority at this rate. It's just not possible. There's always something that people are going to nitpick on.


*i totally thought of devil may cry 1 when i read this* yeah i think it's healthy to just take your entertainment at face value sometimes. even if 13 or 13-2 had a deeper message, it's just not why i bought the game
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#85tadashii18(Topic Creator)Posted 5/8/2012 5:00:40 PM
Where'd all this other talk of stuff come from? Lol I just wanted to know if that was Etro's gate or not
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#86DemonPathRevyaPosted 5/8/2012 5:06:36 PM
Yeah you have to pay close attention in order to catch that.
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#87ZEOPOWER6Posted 5/8/2012 5:10:24 PM
tadashii18 posted...
Where'd all this other talk of stuff come from? Lol I just wanted to know if that was Etro's gate or not

Yes, it was. :P
#88ableriderPosted 5/8/2012 5:13:29 PM
you can see the gate in the ending cutscene is that glowing thin in the sky
#89sicko26usPosted 5/8/2012 5:14:24 PM
ColonelGuile posted...
Aquatrez posted...
The problem is that he's defining a plot hole as "anything that is not explained completely and in detail." Many writers intentionally don't give you all the information. I'm curious to see what other works he considers poorly written and riddled with plot holes...


^ This.


I would love to hear his response too... filled with complete BS too i would imagine


I am just about tired of you and snowx defending these terrible stories, here are some of the plot holes from 13.

What was their focus? (you know the entire plot) it was never said in story, defeat Bart, make Cocoon fall, save Cocoon. Nobody knows.

Who saved the party at the end (difficulty no using 13-2)?

Why did they kill Bart? They knew it would bring down Cocoon and kill everyone, was it a "screw it we are here anyway, might as well do as were told for the first time ever".
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#90ZEOPOWER6Posted 5/8/2012 5:27:46 PM(edited)
sicko26us posted...
ColonelGuile posted...
Aquatrez posted...
The problem is that he's defining a plot hole as "anything that is not explained completely and in detail." Many writers intentionally don't give you all the information. I'm curious to see what other works he considers poorly written and riddled with plot holes...


^ This.


I would love to hear his response too... filled with complete BS too i would imagine

I am just about tired of you and snowx defending these terrible stories, here are some of the plot holes from 13.

What was their focus? (you know the entire plot) it was never said in story, defeat Bart, make Cocoon fall, save Cocoon. Nobody knows.

Who saved the party at the end (difficulty no using 13-2)?

Why did they kill Bart? They knew it would bring down Cocoon and kill everyone, was it a "screw it we are here anyway, might as well do as were told for the first time ever".


I think they killed Barthandelus because he was trying to kill them.

The decrystallization was because 'the fal'Cie' were gone or something. However, I do think they may have retconned this in a way to make it so that Etro was the one who did it. With that said, XIII and XIII-2 are two parts of a larger storyline so it makes sense that they would explain it later on. I do wonder if they actually started on XIII-2 in the month after release or if it was always lingering in their minds.

Their focus was apparently to destroy Cocoon. (I think that is every l'Cie's focus in XIII, which is why Serah had a dream about doing it) Through the power of will, they change their Focus to that of saving Cocoon instead which is why they end up becoming crystal after Fang and Vanille save the world.

Their first Focus:
Become l'Cie -> destroy Cocoon as Ragnarok -> become crystal

Their new Focus:
Become l'Cie -> overcome the first Focus -> save Cocoon -> become crystal -> saved by Etro