If you change the future... Don't understand? (ending spoilers?)

#11Destroyer_MagePosted 1/30/2013 12:19:36 AM
Awesome, I hope things are more clear now TC :)
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#12GenocideHeartPosted 1/31/2013 10:35:25 AM
There's another explanation for 'changing the future changes the past'. Remember, most paradoxes are future objects being sucked in the past. Like Atlas. Doing something like destroying Atlas before it could be sent back in time in the future would mean it never appeared in Bresha, thus the paradox there never happened and the past is changed.

Also note that Alyssa disappears from the timeline in Academia 4xx AF, but is still present in the original timeline, so something done in the alternate timeline's Dying Future caused her to be deleted - but whatever erased her happened AFTER 10AF (if you go to Yaschas Massif she's still there). What it was is a mystery, though.
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#13BardWannabePosted 1/31/2013 1:22:03 PM
xXxHaseoxXx posted...
Destroyer_Mage posted...
This is the way I see it:

When you change something in the future that wouldn't have taken place naturally ,it causes the timeline to correct itself in order for the past to coincide with the future. So basically by changing the future, the past will also change in order to make that future possible.

Hope this makes sense :D


Best explanation for it. Hit it right on the head.


That's how I always took it. Good job, board.
#14xhominidPosted 1/31/2013 2:37:28 PM
From: GenocideHeart | #012
There's another explanation for 'changing the future changes the past'. Remember, most paradoxes are future objects being sucked in the past. Like Atlas. Doing something like destroying Atlas before it could be sent back in time in the future would mean it never appeared in Bresha, thus the paradox there never happened and the past is changed.

Also note that Alyssa disappears from the timeline in Academia 4xx AF, but is still present in the original timeline, so something done in the alternate timeline's Dying Future caused her to be deleted - but whatever erased her happened AFTER 10AF (if you go to Yaschas Massif she's still there). What it was is a mystery, though.


It's the dream Alyssa had of the purge, and that's what killed her in the normal timeline.

It was basically a massive foreshadowing attempt because she literally was dead since Final Fantasy XIII, but due to the changed past, she was able to survive it in the first place.
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#15GenocideHeartPosted 1/31/2013 3:00:04 PM(edited)
xhominid posted...
From: GenocideHeart | #012
There's another explanation for 'changing the future changes the past'. Remember, most paradoxes are future objects being sucked in the past. Like Atlas. Doing something like destroying Atlas before it could be sent back in time in the future would mean it never appeared in Bresha, thus the paradox there never happened and the past is changed.

Also note that Alyssa disappears from the timeline in Academia 4xx AF, but is still present in the original timeline, so something done in the alternate timeline's Dying Future caused her to be deleted - but whatever erased her happened AFTER 10AF (if you go to Yaschas Massif she's still there). What it was is a mystery, though.


It's the dream Alyssa had of the purge, and that's what killed her in the normal timeline.

It was basically a massive foreshadowing attempt because she literally was dead since Final Fantasy XIII, but due to the changed past, she was able to survive it in the first place.


The point I'm making is that this should have retroactively deleted her from the entire timeline since she should have died before Cocoon's fall - and if you revisit Academia 4xx AF, she is indeed missing. But in Bresha 005 AF, which is BEFORE the timeline split, she's still standing before the tomb. If she was retconned out of time, she should've disappeared from the past locations, too, but she didn't... meaning the dream wasn't it. It was an event inbetween Bresha/Yaschas Massif and Academia. Something ELSE happened to Alyssa in that period that was supposed to kill her, but didn't - and with you fixing the timeline, it affected her from that point onward, but not BEFORE (otherwise she would vanish from Bresha and Yaschas as well).

Do you understand what I'm saying? I know it's convoluted. Freaking paradoxes...

EDIT: More importantly, everyone else is forgetting she exists... except Hope, who actually remembers her because he comes from a time period when she was still alive. He thinks she just ducked out to do something, so that means his memories go far enough back to not be affected by the resolved paradox - ie, all the way to 10 AF, after which he was placed outside time inside that capsule.

There's also the guy who was in love with her, but the game does mention strong feelings of emotional attachment can prevent memories being rewritten.
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#16lightdragoon88Posted 2/3/2013 9:25:20 AM
GenocideHeart posted...
xhominid posted...
From: GenocideHeart | #012
There's another explanation for 'changing the future changes the past'. Remember, most paradoxes are future objects being sucked in the past. Like Atlas. Doing something like destroying Atlas before it could be sent back in time in the future would mean it never appeared in Bresha, thus the paradox there never happened and the past is changed.

Also note that Alyssa disappears from the timeline in Academia 4xx AF, but is still present in the original timeline, so something done in the alternate timeline's Dying Future caused her to be deleted - but whatever erased her happened AFTER 10AF (if you go to Yaschas Massif she's still there). What it was is a mystery, though.


It's the dream Alyssa had of the purge, and that's what killed her in the normal timeline.

It was basically a massive foreshadowing attempt because she literally was dead since Final Fantasy XIII, but due to the changed past, she was able to survive it in the first place.


The point I'm making is that this should have retroactively deleted her from the entire timeline since she should have died before Cocoon's fall - and if you revisit Academia 4xx AF, she is indeed missing. But in Bresha 005 AF, which is BEFORE the timeline split, she's still standing before the tomb. If she was retconned out of time, she should've disappeared from the past locations, too, but she didn't... meaning the dream wasn't it. It was an event inbetween Bresha/Yaschas Massif and Academia. Something ELSE happened to Alyssa in that period that was supposed to kill her, but didn't - and with you fixing the timeline, it affected her from that point onward, but not BEFORE (otherwise she would vanish from Bresha and Yaschas as well).

Do you understand what I'm saying? I know it's convoluted. Freaking paradoxes...

EDIT: More importantly, everyone else is forgetting she exists... except Hope, who actually remembers her because he comes from a time period when she was still alive. He thinks she just ducked out to do something, so that means his memories go far enough back to not be affected by the resolved paradox - ie, all the way to 10 AF, after which he was placed outside time inside that capsule.

There's also the guy who was in love with her, but the game does mention strong feelings of emotional attachment can prevent memories being rewritten.



That more of a gameplay feature. For example you can go to both versions of Academia even though 400AF shouldn't exist when 4XX exist, yet we can go there.
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#17GenocideHeartPosted 2/3/2013 10:33:43 AM
That's because the game explicitly tells you you created two timelines. But Alyssa was supposed to have died long before FFXIII-2 even began, so technically when you undid the paradox that prevented her death she should've disappeared from all time periods. The fact she didn't points to her disappearance having something to do with the time inbetween Yaschas Massif 01XAF and Academia 4XXAF.

Exactly what it is, though, remains unexplained.
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#18Le_DerpstickPosted 2/3/2013 11:56:10 AM
Externica posted...
It doesn't make sense.


It makes perfect sense.
It's a different idea than normally presented, but it's not illogical or anything, nor are there any leaps in logic.
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#19JennetLPosted 2/3/2013 6:13:28 PM
The “change the future and it will change the past” concept makes no scientific sense.

Science is study of cause and effect in the observable universe. Event which breaks this cause and effect is a paradox - which inherently means that the event makes no sense, since none can predict the outcome from the information input.

The explanation of taking a rope from box means someone has to put one in beforehand makes it even more complicated. It is even more difficult to predict the outcome, since it could be many different people who put the rope it the box in the first place for many more different reasons. Hell, it may not be a human at all (Chocolina?)! Being in a fantasy setting and all.

The only "seemingly" logical even in the FF13-2 is when Searh battle the artificial Fal'Cie in the Augusta tower.

Searh battled the artificial Fal-Cie which can keep regenerating itself.
She yelled yield out a command to Hope.
Hope watched and listened to Serah's command from the past using the seer machine.
Hope stopped making the artificial Fal'Cie in the past
which wiped out the one where Searh is fighting in the present

However, this is changing the past (talking to the Hope who lived in hundreds of years ago) to changing the present (future). It is not what the game said (change the future and the pass will be changed.)

And the more I think about it, it seems that it is creating yet more paradox (the grandfather paradox).

If Hope has stopped the development of the artificial Fal'Cie in the past, it means that there should be no artificial Fal'Cie in the tower for Serah to fight with! So that the historical event of Serah doing the detective work to hunt down the artificial Fal'Cie should not have happened! And there should be no Serah in the Augusta tower! The whole event, including the Searh and Noal in Augusta tower, should have disappeared all together!

The only explanation is that, for some reason unknown (Goddess blessing?), Serah the seer and Noal the potential-but-not-yet-Guardian can exist outside of time. which making them a demi-God already, like Valhalla Lightning!
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#20lightdragoon88Posted 2/3/2013 8:19:03 PM
GenocideHeart posted...
That's because the game explicitly tells you you created two timelines. But Alyssa was supposed to have died long before FFXIII-2 even began, so technically when you undid the paradox that prevented her death she should've disappeared from all time periods. The fact she didn't points to her disappearance having something to do with the time inbetween Yaschas Massif 01XAF and Academia 4XXAF.

Exactly what it is, though, remains unexplained.


There is no two timelines, only one. The second timeline is a gameplay feature. Alyssa is gone, but for gameplay she stays in the other areas.


The “change the future and it will change the past” concept makes no scientific sense.


Do not put real world science into this.
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