Monster builds after a year

#11GenocideHeartPosted 1/31/2013 2:39:53 PM
achilleszero posted...
GenocideHeart posted...
Then Omega should be somewhere in that list. Its only problem is that it turns slowly, but once it starts spamming beams, it's pretty much an onesided massacre. I don't think anyone besides Valkyrie Lightning can match Omega's DPS.

Also, Omega is one of the best for dealing with flying pests, if not THE best. He just zaps them.


Omega's problem is that he isnt the best at any particular thing or any particular fight. The 3 COMs he listed are superior to Omega in specific fights/situations.


The priblem with highly specialized builds is that they're highly specialized builds. Omega has an inherent advantage in that there ISN'T a situation where he's automatically bad. The others, however, do have such situations. For example, V-Lightning in particular has issues against airborne enemies where she'll use Ruin, which sharply decreases her damage output due to not triggering Scourge, thus wasting her Damage Uncapped skill. Omega, however, has no such issue, as he prioritizes beamspam against enemies regardless of whether they're airborne or not. It will rarely, if ever, use magic, due to its magic stat being sharply lower than its physical stat if built correctly.

Basically, Omega may not be as good in certain matchups, but to make up for it he doesn't have BAD matchups per se either, which is very important too, as he's also less intensive to build up than most of the others.
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#12destrian522Posted 1/31/2013 3:16:28 PM(edited)
Being a mediocre choice all the time is never going to be grounds for top tier. This is true for everything always.

Armor Light with Ruin can still take advantage of BDL. Ally KO: Power Surge II is good.
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#13ArmaLeyvatenPosted 1/31/2013 3:36:39 PM(edited)
Valhalla Lightning casts Ruin spam on airborne enemies with a Strength-based build? News to me...Only way I can imagine that happening is against enemies resistant to physical attacks but take normal damage from magic (Fomoire comes to mind).

less intensive to build up than most of the others.

I guess I must have imagined fighting Proto Fal'cie Adam 80+ times for all the Power Generators necessary to build him. Compared to farming the measly 47 Power Crystals for Valhalla Lightning it's a total borefest even with the Clock Master fragment skill to beat the battle in 10 seconds or less. Omega is WAY more expensive than any other top-tier COM, and that's to be subpar at pretty much anything:

-Chichu beats it against ground opponents due to Armor Breaker, Bravery Feeder, and no turning issues
-Amodar beats it against aerial opponents due to his amazing attack speed
-Valhalla Lightning beats it against opponents resistant to physical attacks but take normal damage from magic (magic, aka Ruin, not being a viable option for Omega whatsoever)

That just leaves the case of having multiple opponents, which is iffy since Omega would need to hit enough opponents with his multi-target attacks to fill up his ATB again, not to mention that all the other options above can utilize their Feral Links with no downside.
#14GenocideHeartPosted 1/31/2013 5:33:38 PM
ArmaLeyvaten posted...
I guess I must have imagined fighting Proto Fal'cie Adam 80+ times for all the Power Generators necessary to build him. Compared to farming the measly 47 Power Crystals for Valhalla Lightning it's a total borefest even with the Clock Master fragment skill to beat the battle in 10 seconds or less. Omega is WAY more expensive than any other top-tier COM, and that's to be subpar at pretty much anything:

-Chichu beats it against ground opponents due to Armor Breaker, Bravery Feeder, and no turning issues
-Amodar beats it against aerial opponents due to his amazing attack speed
-Valhalla Lightning beats it against opponents resistant to physical attacks but take normal damage from magic (magic, aka Ruin, not being a viable option for Omega whatsoever)

That just leaves the case of having multiple opponents, which is iffy since Omega would need to hit enough opponents with his multi-target attacks to fill up his ATB again, not to mention that all the other options above can utilize their Feral Links with no downside.


The biggest problem I have with Valhalla Lightning is that she has a nasty habit of using Ruin on airborne enemies even when I all-Power her. I don't know why she does that - I used all Power materials to build her, but she will still use Ruin on enemies knocked up in the air even when she should really use her physicals. It may be poor AI, but this leads to her damage being massively lower than it could be.

Now, you might say 'well, she's still good on ground enemies'... except my strategy involves large usage of attacks that launch enemies, so she's actually hampering me.

Amodar is a toss up with Omega - he attacks faster, but has less Strength and doesn't recharge his bar as fast as the killbot does. And against multiple enemies he just isn't as good. And using Chichu against air opponents isn't even worth considering.

In the end, Omega is more useful to me than either V-Lightning or Chichu. He performs decently against ground enemies and groups, even if others exceed him, and absolutely murders fliers. I don't like super-specialized roles (which is why my Noel has a good mix of magic and power), and prefer having guys that maybe won't be as death-incarnate in certain situations as others, but can reliably do everything at a high level against anyone and shine in their special occasions. V-Lightning has been pissing me off with asinine AI, and the others are, while very powerful, too situational. That's why I consider Omega to be at least equal to the top tiers. Whatever you do, it'll rarely let you down.

(and if someone resists physicals and takes normal from magic, you should probably either get a SAB to lower their resistance or switch to a RAV and kick their ass that way. I doubt a great many people keep V-Lightning in over RAV-Lightning when such a situation occurs...)

This is all just my opinion, anyway. But I find it strange that just because someone isn't overspecialized and instead is solid all around, it's considered 'subpar'. There was a time when balanced characters who were strong under nearly all circumstances were top tier, while overspecialized ones were lower tier... in fighting game terms, compare the shotoclones to Zangief. Zangief absolutely beats them in damage output and close range, but is nearly worthless against long range and performs poorly against aerial attackers and quick jabbers. Meanwhile a shotoclone will never have the raw DPS Gief does, but can handle almost any situation thrown at them. What they lack in raw power they make up for in all-rounder ability. Omega's only real weakness is magic, which is very low, but his strength is so high and he refills his gauge so fast that he can keep a constant stream of damage up even against phys-res enemies.

Just my $0.02...
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#15achilleszeroPosted 1/31/2013 6:33:43 PM(edited)
GenocideHeart posted...
The biggest problem I have with Valhalla Lightning is that she has a nasty habit of using Ruin on airborne enemies even when I all-Power her. I don't know why she does that - I used all Power materials to build her, but she will still use Ruin on enemies knocked up in the air even when she should really use her physicals. It may be poor AI, but this leads to her damage being massively lower than it could be.

Now, you might say 'well, she's still good on ground enemies'... except my strategy involves large usage of attacks that launch enemies, so she's actually hampering me.

Then somethings up with your Lightning. Mine uses physicals against launched opponents. Her DPS in the air is unparalleled by any other monster. In what fights are you seeing this behavior?

In the end, Omega is more useful to me than either V-Lightning or Chichu. He performs decently against ground enemies and groups, even if others exceed him, and absolutely murders fliers. I don't like super-specialized roles (which is why my Noel has a good mix of magic and power), and prefer having guys that maybe won't be as death-incarnate in certain situations as others, but can reliably do everything at a high level against anyone and shine in their special occasions. V-Lightning has been pissing me off with asinine AI, and the others are, while very powerful, too situational. That's why I consider Omega to be at least equal to the top tiers. Whatever you do, it'll rarely let you down.

Omega certainly has some pitfalls. It is very slow to turn and retarget which often leads to a huge hit in its DPS. The "big 3 COMs" are also not as overspecialized as your saying. Physical or Magic V.Lightning can kill anything in the game faster than Omega. Chichu destroys a great majority of enemies in the game way faster than Omega due to most enemies in the game being grounded. Cactuar's usage against aerial opponents is well known (Yomi killer) but even against single ground opponents Cactuar can at least match Omega (in most cases).

(and if someone resists physicals and takes normal from magic, you should probably either get a SAB to lower their resistance or switch to a RAV and kick their ass that way. I doubt a great many people keep V-Lightning in over RAV-Lightning when such a situation occurs...)

Debuff usage should be a given in top tier strategies. Besides, in your hypothetical, Deprotect wont be enough.



Now I'm not saying Omega is bad. Im just not sure if its top tier material. Its definitely one of the better monsters in the game and a lot of fun to use.
#16GenocideHeartPosted 2/1/2013 1:09:01 AM
To be honest, the biggest problem seems to be that the AI in this game is kinda dumb. That's usually the RAV AI, though, not the COM AI...
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#17Tec187Posted 2/1/2013 4:38:15 AM
Good info started flowing in this thread! Good stuff guys, thanks :)
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#18ArthellinusPosted 2/1/2013 8:51:53 AM
I should have added "efficiently" to my explanation. We're talking about things like two-staggering Gilgamesh, one-staggering Snow, one-staggering Valfodr 70, and so on.
#19xnoelzPosted 2/2/2013 8:16:29 AM
destrian522 posted...
Chichu, Rav Lightning, and Cloudburst are still top tier. I'm not sure that Valfodr can be considered top tier, but I'm not the best person to ask. Snow definitely isn't top tier. I suspect Cactuar makes the cut.

Was Omega ever considered top tier? I don't remember that one.


COM Lightning's uncapped damage
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#20GenocideHeartPosted 2/2/2013 10:33:58 AM
Arthellinus posted...
I should have added "efficiently" to my explanation. We're talking about things like two-staggering Gilgamesh, one-staggering Snow, one-staggering Valfodr 70, and so on.


To be honest, I don't care about minmaxing. I'll take reliability over efficiency anytime, even if the reliable choice is the slow one. Slow and steady may not win the race, but it doesn't end up splattered on the wall at the slightest mistake, either. That may color my opinion on monsters...
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**PS3 ID: GenocideHeart - Vita ID: VR-Jaguarandi**
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