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Who's stronger, Snow or Noel? SPOILERS

#1CollectorReturnPosted 1/30/2013 1:50:53 PM
Who do you think is stronger between these two? Square Enix have said that Caius is the strongest FF villain and he is perfectly equal to Lightning making both of them essentially gods. Caius has the Power of Chaos which is said as being even superior to the Fal'Cie.

Yet despite all his strength he believed Noel could surpass him, was it that he really thought he had the potential or that he didn't have a choice but to believe he did due to him being the last remaining human in existence?

Now Snow is a L'Cie, I think this makes him a little more powerful in 13-2 than Noel because his L'Cie magic will be stronger than Noel's human magic.

Example, Serah can use magic due to the distorted nature of the timeline at the start of the game but would the magic be equal to her strength as a L'Cie?
#2MisterTelliusPosted 1/30/2013 5:08:59 PM(edited)
I really think in-game stats are a pretty reliable indicator of just how "strong" Snow and Noel can be.

Snow as a human in XIII had:

350 HP
17 Strength
7 Magic

Noel started out with:

404 HP
30 Strength
28 Magic

Sure, Noel's stats start out notably higher than Snow's, but one could explain that's because of natural Pulse magic that all humans would gain after old Cocoon's fall. The word "magic" seems to apply liberally to mean superhuman vitality and ability, as when Snow was given "magic" in the original game, his stats (keep in mind this is all without weapons) were automatically raised to:

500 HP
32 Strength
22 Magic

I theorize that the "magic" given to Serah and Noel (which was given to them by the planet of Pulse itself) is comparable to that of l'Cie, except for the fact that their potential for growth is nowhere near as good. After all, max crystarium Snow ends up with:

30000 HP
1500 Strength
1200 Magic

Meanwhile, Noel is going to need silly little bangles and wristbands just to break a third of Snow's HP, or 1000 in any of his strength and magic stats.

So all in all, Noel could beat up Snow pretty easily if he time traveled to before Cocoon's fall, but should both be at full strength, Snow could easily crush Noel. At least if you're going by stats. It explains why Snow is such a toughie in this game's Colosseum, too, as no matter what, a full-power l'Cie is always going to be dangerous compared to a human.
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Nihilism was never my cup of tea.
#3CollectorReturn(Topic Creator)Posted 1/31/2013 11:06:10 AM
Very nice analysis taking the stats into account, never thought of that I was just thinking about l'Cie strength and what we saw in game but I agree with you about Snow being tougher.

He's a beast in the Coliseum! True epitome of a tank, essential what the Sentinel class is and Snow's the ultimate SEN.

As a l'Cie in FF 13 Snow was show deflecting a megaflare type attacks from Fang's Eidolon Bahamut away from the party which I imagine is pretty impressive even for a well developed l'Cie. Defense was always his speciality.

Also he's a difficult boss even for max level teams in this game, you need good attacking monsters like Chichu to do some real damage. Noel by himself has nothing that I think could seriously hurt Snow.
#4CollectorReturn(Topic Creator)Posted 1/31/2013 11:14:43 AM
Also if memory serves Snow at the start of the game as a normal human has the highest strength stat of anyone you have at that point and Lightning is second. Pretty sure she's above Sazh.

Making him naturally the strongest of the team not including Fang. You'd hope this was the case give his strong 6'7" frame.

Lightning is shown to be very strong at the start of the game, she's easily above the PSICOM soldiers you face and Snow's not bothered by them either.
#5GenocideHeartPosted 1/31/2013 12:19:16 PM(edited)
MisterTellius posted...
I really think in-game stats are a pretty reliable indicator of just how "strong" Snow and Noel can be.

Snow as a human in XIII had:

350 HP
17 Strength
7 Magic

Noel started out with:

404 HP
30 Strength
28 Magic

Sure, Noel's stats start out notably higher than Snow's, but one could explain that's because of natural Pulse magic that all humans would gain after old Cocoon's fall. The word "magic" seems to apply liberally to mean superhuman vitality and ability, as when Snow was given "magic" in the original game, his stats (keep in mind this is all without weapons) were automatically raised to:

500 HP
32 Strength
22 Magic

I theorize that the "magic" given to Serah and Noel (which was given to them by the planet of Pulse itself) is comparable to that of l'Cie, except for the fact that their potential for growth is nowhere near as good. After all, max crystarium Snow ends up with:

30000 HP
1500 Strength
1200 Magic

Meanwhile, Noel is going to need silly little bangles and wristbands just to break a third of Snow's HP, or 1000 in any of his strength and magic stats.

So all in all, Noel could beat up Snow pretty easily if he time traveled to before Cocoon's fall, but should both be at full strength, Snow could easily crush Noel. At least if you're going by stats. It explains why Snow is such a toughie in this game's Colosseum, too, as no matter what, a full-power l'Cie is always going to be dangerous compared to a human.


If you're going to use the Colosseum as proof, do remember that Jihl Nabaat's fight is the toughest of the lot - and not just because she summons help, but because she's almost untouchable under normal circumstances (she takes roughly half the damage Snow would), and her Sadistic Surge Feral Link is guaranteed to OHKO whoever gets hit by it and WILL be used after she disposes of her helpers.

And Nabaat isn't a l'Cie.

Also, it seems Noel was hit with the nerf bat after going through Valhalla's gate, seeing how he killed a Behemoth all by himself in the Dying World flashback. Same Behemoth that will completely violate a party first time you meet them in Yaschas Massif 010 AF.
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**PS3 ID: GenocideHeart - Vita ID: VR-Jaguarandi**
"You forgot to buy Warp Wire, didn't you?" --Nevius
#6MisterTelliusPosted 1/31/2013 9:21:06 PM
^

I got nothing.
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Nihilism was never my cup of tea.
#7GenocideHeartPosted 2/1/2013 12:04:05 AM
Generally speaking, Noel does some pretty amazing things in cutscenes, like dropkicking that huge granite pillar Atlas throws at the party to pieces. He also takes a punch to the face from Paradox Alpha and is fine enough to fight afterwards.
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**PS3 ID: GenocideHeart - Vita ID: VR-Jaguarandi**
"You forgot to buy Warp Wire, didn't you?" --Nevius
#8xnoelzPosted 2/1/2013 4:49:40 AM
Snow's colossal HP
That HP...
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#9lightdragoon88Posted 2/1/2013 6:41:00 AM
GenocideHeart posted...
Generally speaking, Noel does some pretty amazing things in cutscenes, like dropkicking that huge granite pillar Atlas throws at the party to pieces. He also takes a punch to the face from Paradox Alpha and is fine enough to fight afterwards.


Cutscene wise Snow deflect the Giant Tomato monster attack and punch it into the air.
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#10GenocideHeartPosted 2/1/2013 7:23:51 AM
lightdragoon88 posted...
GenocideHeart posted...
Generally speaking, Noel does some pretty amazing things in cutscenes, like dropkicking that huge granite pillar Atlas throws at the party to pieces. He also takes a punch to the face from Paradox Alpha and is fine enough to fight afterwards.


Cutscene wise Snow deflect the Giant Tomato monster attack and punch it into the air.


Let's be fair now, getting punched by the Royal Ripeness, which is a soft flan, isn't the same thing as getting a gigantic hand shaped mass of rock and steel to your face and being thrown against a granite wall. By all means, Noel should be dead, not standing, let alone be able to fight and none the worse for wear in the next scenes.

Also, if the quick vision Serah had was any indication, Snow was supposed to die against the Ripeness when all by himself. Noel and Serah basically saved his careless ass from a nasty end.

(and he was forced to his knees by the Mutantomato too, which is pathetic as Noel and Serah shred the green failure in seconds...)

I dunno, Noel just seems to be tougher. And it does make sense, given how he was born in the end days, when staying alive was a feat in and of itself. Did you see some of the monsters in the Dying World? And yet after it was just him, Yeul and Caius, Noel regularly hunted alone. And survived. He seriously got hit with a giant nerf bat when he went through the portal.
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**PS3 ID: GenocideHeart - Vita ID: VR-Jaguarandi**
"You forgot to buy Warp Wire, didn't you?" --Nevius