another AI post.

#1chrcolPosted 4/10/2013 7:51:37 PM
Ok so I am farming Strigol for segmented crapace as I am been awkward and want those weapons before I progress.

I have an AI syn testudo. Who has only his default skills which for those who dont know is brave, faith, bravega and faithga. Normally keeping the skillset this narrow stops a broken AI, however for this fight it doesnt.

Strigoi halves physaical damage and I am ctrolling serah who is of cours emagic focused. These 2 things alone should mean the syn casts faith or faithga first right?

I think the game has pre scripted syn commands set for each enemy and this enemy they messed up.

It casts brave first and not even bravega. To speed things up.

I set a wide paradgrim and it even ignores that still setting brave on each character seperatly. The AI is so frustrating in this game.

Also in FF13 deshell,deprotect and imperial were generally prioritised especially ahead of posion. In this game the order seems chaotic, but usually I am seeing deshell or deptroctect first (which is picked seems random) followed by poison, followed then by deprotect/.deshell (the one not picked first) with imperial often last :(

Does anyone know as well if deprotect and deshell are nerfed in their potency in ff13-2? In ff13 they pretty much doubled damage.
#2destrian522Posted 4/11/2013 2:44:46 PM
chrcol posted...
Strigoi halves physaical damage and I am ctrolling serah who is of cours emagic focused. These 2 things alone should mean the syn casts faith or faithga first right?

I think the game has pre scripted syn commands set for each enemy and this enemy they messed up.

It casts brave first and not even bravega. To speed things up.

I set a wide paradgrim and it even ignores that still setting brave on each character seperatly. The AI is so frustrating in this game.

First of all, I know you set it to wide to test, but don't use wide with the purpose of encouraging Syn -ga buff use. The only difference between wide and normal is that the base prioritization for Wide is defense > augment, and the base prioritization for normal is augment > defense.

The reason the A.I. is choosing Bravery first (not Faith, Faithga, or Bravega) is pretty much the same reason why the A.I. always does something like this: it is responding to the notes on the enemy intel page. Those notes take priority over the base Syn prioritization for your paradigm. If you check it, you'll see that Strigoi is capable of inflicting Debrave. Testudo is inflicting Bravery as a preventative measure.

Now, that still raises the question as to why Bravery is used and not Bravega. Whenever the A.I. is responding to a note on the enemy intel page, it will only ever use use single target Syn abilities. I don't know what was going through their heads when they programmed it this way, but that's the way it is. It is consistent and stupid.

Does anyone know as well if deprotect and deshell are nerfed in their potency in ff13-2? In ff13 they pretty much doubled damage.

They were massively nerfed. Deprotect and Deshell are only x1.3 damage multipliers now. They basically traded effectiveness with Bravery and Faith, which are significantly more powerful now (though not as strong as Bravera and Faithra).
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#3chrcol(Topic Creator)Posted 4/13/2013 4:41:02 AM
destrian I have to say what you said about wide doesnt fit my experience, and also you are the first person to have said that, in my time reading ff13-2 sites and forums I have read dozens if not 100s of people stating wide = ga cross = single target buffs, and my previos playign experienced did that.

eg. on the DLC lightning fight I have manipulated the syn. to choosing either multi target or single target buffs using wide or cross. This was actually my first ever ff13-2 fight where setting wide didnt do -ga buffs.

Also on normal I see defense ahead of augment 90% of time unless its specific fights.

But thanks for the explanation on brave, to me it still makes no sense and I do consider it broken (as it lacks realistic logic). A unbroken AI would perhaps cast it in reaction to a debrave, but essentially in that fight a debrave is harmless because the sane tactic is to maximise the biggest damage dealer which would be the highest magic caster.

Also have you ever see strigoi cast debrave? the note is a shock since all he does is a few physocal attacks and then start spamming daze.
#4chrcol(Topic Creator)Posted 4/13/2013 4:54:41 AM
yeah just tested wide forces ga usually and cross forces single target although normal most of time will default to ga as well.

You have answer as to why AI casts en buffs first when no elemtal weakness? including when even an imperiel cant make them weak and when they immune to imperial with no weakness.
#5destrian522Posted 4/13/2013 7:10:19 AM
I never got around to testing all of the notes to determine casting triggers, but I test the base prioritization under the three tunings extensively.

First of all, I was comparing wide and normal. I didn't mention cross at all. Cross does have an emphasis on single target abilities. Both wide and normal place an emphasis on -ga buffs.

Secondly, I'm talking about base prioritization once you take all other triggers away (the ones based on enemy intel). Since enemy intel pages tend to encourage Syns to cast defense abilities (and always in single-target form), if you just randomly wander through encounter regions checking what gets cast first, it isn't unreasonable that you will see a lot of defense abilities in normal.

If you want to test something, you have to be systematic about it.
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#6chrcol(Topic Creator)Posted 4/13/2013 3:04:26 PM
I am, eg. if I find a enemy where ga isnt the default, switching to wide makes it cast ga. (except in this fight which is the first one that hasnt done that).

I have been playing this game for years now. Its one of those things I pick up on just from playing it.

This game really should have had a star ocean or vesperia type system where can have some control over the AI, whilst I think the AI is aweful in this game you seem to think its ok.

Also when I tested on ff13 and can cast debrave is listed in the libra screen, bravery isnt prioritised unless debrave is cast. So that is another thing they changed in ff13-2. Its like the AI was rushed they dont wait for debrave to be case the bravery is just cast anyway.
#7chrcol(Topic Creator)Posted 4/13/2013 11:24:34 PM
back to deprotect a wikia made for this game says heavy deprotega is 80% vs 30% on deprotect? is it right?
#8achilleszeroPosted 4/14/2013 4:59:19 AM
chrcol posted...
back to deprotect a wikia made for this game says heavy deprotega is 80% vs 30% on deprotect? is it right?


If you mean the ability's damage modifier, Heavy Deprotega is 0.8 and Deprotect is 0.35. Which wikia was it?
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