gilgamesh had to use slow + easy to beat

#11destrian522Posted 4/20/2013 7:30:17 AM
chrcol posted...
However we all play the game differently, have different skills, probably have different styles of play, so its wrong for one person to put down another and assume his.her style of play is the only way to play. To make comments such as stagger time is always max anyway is wrong for that reason. One reason I dont like using feral links unless they very simple like pressing one button is I can get confused simply for the reaction time required. and I did notice when using goblin cheif's feral link once with 100% sync rate the duration was quite short. I have never put down another poster and made them feel as if they dumb or something, that is a wrong attitude to have. So yes many of the people on here think SMII is useless, I dont and I think CBII is over rated. Everyone has their own thoughts, although CBII is still on my coms on this playthru, I do expect to be dropping it.

Different people do play different ways, but you seem to be implying that those ways are equally effective. They aren't. Some ways are better than others.

By the way, there are numerous reasons why you could be having trouble. First of all, there is no Haste in this game, so your attacks are coming in less frequently. Second, you might be using chain level weapons, which significantly increase your chaining potential. needing fewer abilities to stagger means that you add less time to the chain duration before staggering.

Suggesting that average stagger time is 30 seconds is extremely misleading. Staggers should last as long as you need them to. Getting to the cap is trivial without Stagger Maintenance II.

You put down other posters in almost every post you write.
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#12tiornysPosted 4/20/2013 7:54:28 AM(edited)
The only thing I see that destrian522 didn't cover: using a COM post-stagger does not add any more duration to the stagger. Stagger duration is set at the time of stagger. This is the type of thing that I meant when I said that you didn't understand the mechanics. I was pretty sure you knew that COMs had longer durations. I was also pretty sure that you did not understand how that translated from chain duration (pre-stagger) to stagger length.

I was not trying to be elitist. I was trying to give you the information you needed to correct your misconceptions about how the mechanics worked. Without a proper understanding of the mechanics, you won't be able to properly appreciate the strategies you're looking at.

The comments I made about Tri-disaster vs. Relentless Assault are not about getting the enemy staggered in the first place. They are about this comment:

Sitting here wondering how someone can stagger him, debuff him, and get him to 999% with time left to damage him. Generally I staggered him, debuffed him, did 2 turns of rav-rav-com which got him to about 700%ish then went to damage mode, by then he only has 30-40% or so stagger left as in this game stagger is so short.

Bold added to highlight the problematic statement. Post-stagger, after debuffing, when trying to maximize the chain, you should use Tri-disaster. Having a third RAV during those two turns could have added another 130-150% chain (or more; I'm not sure I caught all the relevant chaining factors in my ballpark estimation there). 850% is still not 999%, but it's a lot closer than 700%.

One round of debuffing followed by two rounds of Tri-disaster should leave over half the stagger for damage dealing.
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#13chrcol(Topic Creator)Posted 4/23/2013 2:08:25 AM
this highlights really a limitation of the game. The simple reason I didnt do tri disaster is I had no room for a rav monster. Sicne the game only allows 3 monsters. I also didnt have a developed rav monster either.

I have now beaten him easier changing a few things round.

I added a rav monster which has quick stagger and SMII. This also allows me to do tri disaster post stagger also.
I kept my syn monster and sacrificed the sen monster, instead I used serah as my sen which was enough.

I do understand once a monster is staggered the duration is set, I was talking about using a com pre stagger.

Thanks for the advice anyway and I hope I caused no offense.

I kept lightning as my monster com since she is doing over 150k damage per hit now with the 900+ stagger and I believe even with its higher speed chichu will not outdamage that, Killed him in 2 staggers, almost died few times as serah struggles as sen although just about enough. I expect if can kill him in one stagger its pretty easy tho as before first stagger he doesnt use his biggest attacks. What I didnt try yet is giving serah and noel the accessories which boost their str/mag by 66% (the ones dropped from lightning and her superior in the lightning colleseum fight).
#14chrcol(Topic Creator)Posted 4/23/2013 2:10:24 AM
I am aware I am probably not optimising the attacks prior to stagger to get max duration, as I am trying to make sure I can do good things after stagger (such as not having to heal/revive characters) so the SMII makes that considerably easier hence I use it, the quick stagger making sure the monster with SMII gets the stagger.
#15chrcol(Topic Creator)Posted 4/23/2013 2:21:22 AM
one last thing I did time my stagger duration without SMII, it actually wasnt that low, It was around 35-40 seconds anyway so was close to max duration, but I am not getting 1 round of debuffing and 2 rounds of tri disaster in with over half of it left even with 45 seconds.
deshell needs 2 shots to stick, deprotect 2 amd imperiel 3 so thats 7 on a 5 atb bar, generally I have been doing sab,rav,syn on that phase so the stagger is still been increased, buffs are been set and debuffs are been set. Obviously you guys will be saying dont manual buff and use a feral link instead, I also havent tried sacrificing a rav for sab so using 2 sabs to debuff but that to me seems wasteful as with the AI debuffing also there is higher chance of me and the AI casting the same debuff duplicating each other, to me seemed better to just have the AI spamming its rav attacks whilst I debuff before swithing to full rav for 2 turns.

The only thing left really unasnwered for me is you saying the mechanics havent changed, on ff13 I can get the stagger bar to last for ages when not staggered, just pounding away with com attacks without staggering it takes ages to go down, The same on ff13-2 doesnt happen, there seems to be an upper cap set. Also on ff13 if you attack once with a rav it zooms down super fast, but drops slower on ff13-2. So that to me is still unexplained why I am seeing that. Its as if the 2 attacks are less extreme on how they affect how fast it goes down.
#16achilleszeroPosted 4/23/2013 5:18:07 AM
chrcol posted...
this highlights really a limitation of the game. The simple reason I didnt do tri disaster is I had no room for a rav monster. Sicne the game only allows 3 monsters. I also didnt have a developed rav monster either.

What kind of team were you using that didnt include a RAV?

I kept lightning as my monster com since she is doing over 150k damage per hit now with the 900+ stagger and I believe even with its higher speed chichu will not outdamage that,

You're right. At +900%, Lightning will out damage Chichu. However, during the time spent getting the chain that high, Chichu will have done several million damage.

chrcol posted...
one last thing I did time my stagger duration without SMII, it actually wasnt that low, It was around 35-40 seconds anyway so was close to max duration, but I am not getting 1 round of debuffing and 2 rounds of tri disaster in with over half of it left even with 45 seconds.
deshell needs 2 shots to stick, deprotect 2 amd imperiel 3 so thats 7 on a 5 atb bar, generally I have been doing sab,rav,syn on that phase so the stagger is still been increased, buffs are been set and debuffs are been set. Obviously you guys will be saying dont manual buff and use a feral link instead, I also havent tried sacrificing a rav for sab so using 2 sabs to debuff but that to me seems wasteful as with the AI debuffing also there is higher chance of me and the AI casting the same debuff duplicating each other, to me seemed better to just have the AI spamming its rav attacks whilst I debuff before swithing to full rav for 2 turns.

You should have OVER half your stagger left. You only need 1 Deshell, 1 Deprotect, and 3 Imperils.

The only thing left really unasnwered for me is you saying the mechanics havent changed, on ff13 I can get the stagger bar to last for ages when not staggered, just pounding away with com attacks without staggering it takes ages to go down, The same on ff13-2 doesnt happen, there seems to be an upper cap set. Also on ff13 if you attack once with a rav it zooms down super fast, but drops slower on ff13-2. So that to me is still unexplained why I am seeing that. Its as if the 2 attacks are less extreme on how they affect how fast it goes down.

The chain duration values haven't changed (for the most part). There is a duration cap of 30 seconds. So you can sit around doing nothing for 8 seconds and still get max stagger.
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#17destrian522Posted 4/23/2013 4:00:18 PM
chrcol posted...
The only thing left really unasnwered for me is you saying the mechanics havent changed, on ff13 I can get the stagger bar to last for ages when not staggered, just pounding away with com attacks without staggering it takes ages to go down, The same on ff13-2 doesnt happen, there seems to be an upper cap set

I did answer this. I'll quote it.

destrian522 posted...
By the way, there are numerous reasons why you could be having trouble. First of all, there is no Haste in this game, so your attacks are coming in less frequently. Second, you might be using chain level weapons, which significantly increase your chaining potential. Needing fewer abilities to stagger means that you add less time to the chain duration before staggering.


chrcol posted...
Also on ff13 if you attack once with a rav it zooms down super fast, but drops slower on ff13-2. So that to me is still unexplained why I am seeing that. Its as if the 2 attacks are less extreme on how they affect how fast it goes down.

This is actually incorrect. The chain gauge does not behave this way in XIII. The "speed" at which the chain "zooms down" is a visual representation of time. If you have very little chain duration left, it does not take long for the bar to disappear. If you have very little duration and a mostly filled bar, the bar will appear to be dropping much faster than if you have a barely filled bar.

You should consider reading this:
http://etrosgate.com/ffxiii/basic-overview#The_Chain_Gauge

achilleszero posted...
There is a duration cap of 30 seconds. So you can sit around doing nothing for 8 seconds and still get max stagger.

It's 11.5 seconds, and that isn't including the duration added by the staggering blow.
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#18achilleszeroPosted 4/23/2013 4:14:11 PM
destrian522 posted...
achilleszero posted...
There is a duration cap of 30 seconds. So you can sit around doing nothing for 8 seconds and still get max stagger.

It's 11.5 seconds, and that isn't including the duration added by the staggering blow.

Oh yeah. Forgot about the +8 second thing.
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#19lindaluvPosted 4/23/2013 4:23:12 PM
do you, destrian and tioryns make games? Or are you guys just really good experimenters?
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#20destrian522Posted 4/23/2013 4:31:06 PM
We don't make games.
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