So, why is Caius' evil master plan so similar to...? *spoilers*

#1RemijiaPosted 5/25/2013 12:13:23 AM
Just finished up the game, and, though a few parts were confusing, what stood out the most to me is that Caius' plan to force open the gate between worlds by destroying enough people simultaneously (i.e. smashing Cocoon, apparently the original apocalypse was too slow-paced) is almost exactly the same as Barthandelus' plan to call back the Maker by, well, doing the same thing.

Is this ever elaborated on, somehow? Had Barthandelus succeeded at the end of XIII, would that have triggered the same... I'm going to call it "time-devouring Big Bad smoke monster"... as at the end of XIII-2? I remember them saying that either killing Etro's heart *or* smashing Cocoon would have the same basic effect.
#2CatMutoPosted 5/25/2013 12:55:57 AM
Technically, the result would have been the same but the reason would have been different. Destroying Etro's heart kills her and she is unable to hold the Chaos back entirely. Smashing Cocoon would result in tons of people's deaths, so that Etro would have to open the gate for so long and so wide that Chaos could easily go over the world.

And that's an interesting idea. Perhaps Chaos is the Maker? The Maker is never clearly stated to be Bhunivelze or anyone else and it's never really revealed what or who the Maker is, so perhaps Chaos is the Maker. *shrug*

C-A
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#3ExternicaPosted 5/25/2013 3:13:42 PM
You know, I always thought that the events of 13-2 were also part of Barthandelus' scheme.

Despite what the party of FF13 did, they did exactly what Barhandelus wanted them to do. Including killing him and Orphanus, resulting in cocoon crashing.
However, Vanille and Fang created the crystal pillar. No big deal. Over time, the pillar would corrode and Cocoon still crashes into Pulse and Bart5handelus would still win.
After all, if time is working for you, why bother to have immediate results? Especially when you're an immortal Fal'Cie?

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the Final Boss and/or true Big Bad of Lightning Returns would be Barthandelus again, revealing that all that happened, including the time crash, was his idea and that he only faked his own death.
But yes, I don't deny that this is a big stretch.
Time will tell, I'm looking forward to LR.
#4lightdragoon88Posted 5/26/2013 4:02:37 AM
CatMuto posted...
Technically, the result would have been the same but the reason would have been different. Destroying Etro's heart kills her and she is unable to hold the Chaos back entirely. Smashing Cocoon would result in tons of people's deaths, so that Etro would have to open the gate for so long and so wide that Chaos could easily go over the world.

And that's an interesting idea. Perhaps Chaos is the Maker? The Maker is never clearly stated to be Bhunivelze or anyone else and it's never really revealed what or who the Maker is, so perhaps Chaos is the Maker. *shrug*

C-A


The Maker is like many people regions version of God.

The Final Fantasy XIII Ultimania Omega further confirms that the fal'Cie are looking for their respective gods, further implying that "Maker" does not refer to a single being.


But if I have to make a guess, I go with Bhunivelze or the chaos itself.
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#5e4joshPosted 5/26/2013 6:40:52 AM
How about this idea, what if, the 'maker' is Bhunivelze, and barth wants the 'maker' to be back in the world to bring salvation ( he does state that ), and the maker created pulse to look after his land yes? He also created lindzei to look for etro's gate and protect him in crystal statis, and linzei and pulse made fal'cie's to nuture the humans, look for etro's gate etc. Now say barthy had an idea? That opening etro's gate for so long would result in bhuni waking up from his crystal sleep? Because that is why he went turnt to crystal in the 1st place, so that etro's gate (or unseen gate something along them lines) could be found and he could trvel through there to valhalla and defeat Mwynn once and for all? We could speculate Mwynn is dead, but it says she was 'engulfed by choas' in valhalla, that doesn't mean she died, she might of became one with choas itself?
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#6CatMutoPosted 5/26/2013 12:58:32 PM
Externica posted...
Despite what the party of FF13 did, they did exactly what Barhandelus wanted them to do. Including killing him and Orphanus, resulting in cocoon crashing.
However, Vanille and Fang created the crystal pillar.


That's the part where I will always state that the ending is not a miracle.
Look at the vision they have of their focus in the beginning of the game. We see Ragnarok, we see Cocoon falling, but we also see the start of the creation of the Crystal Pillar. So everything in the ending, until Light and the others get de-crystalized thanks to Etro, is exactly what they were supposed to do

C-A
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"If sense were common, everyone would have it."
The gamer who dislikes FF VII, OoT and similar and isn't afraid to admit it
#7Remijia(Topic Creator)Posted 5/26/2013 2:44:55 PM
e4josh posted...
How about this idea, what if, the 'maker' is Bhunivelze, and barth wants the 'maker' to be back in the world to bring salvation ( he does state that ), and the maker created pulse to look after his land yes? He also created lindzei to look for etro's gate and protect him in crystal statis, and linzei and pulse made fal'cie's to nuture the humans, look for etro's gate etc. Now say barthy had an idea? That opening etro's gate for so long would result in bhuni waking up from his crystal sleep? Because that is why he went turnt to crystal in the 1st place, so that etro's gate (or unseen gate something along them lines) could be found and he could trvel through there to valhalla and defeat Mwynn once and for all? We could speculate Mwynn is dead, but it says she was 'engulfed by choas' in valhalla, that doesn't mean she died, she might of became one with choas itself?


Where, exactly, is all of this stated? I don't remember *any* of that stuff, and I thought I'd played the games pretty thoroughly. @_@
#8lightdragoon88Posted 5/26/2013 3:38:29 PM
Remijia posted...
e4josh posted...
How about this idea, what if, the 'maker' is Bhunivelze, and barth wants the 'maker' to be back in the world to bring salvation ( he does state that ), and the maker created pulse to look after his land yes? He also created lindzei to look for etro's gate and protect him in crystal statis, and linzei and pulse made fal'cie's to nuture the humans, look for etro's gate etc. Now say barthy had an idea? That opening etro's gate for so long would result in bhuni waking up from his crystal sleep? Because that is why he went turnt to crystal in the 1st place, so that etro's gate (or unseen gate something along them lines) could be found and he could trvel through there to valhalla and defeat Mwynn once and for all? We could speculate Mwynn is dead, but it says she was 'engulfed by choas' in valhalla, that doesn't mean she died, she might of became one with choas itself?


Where, exactly, is all of this stated? I don't remember *any* of that stuff, and I thought I'd played the games pretty thoroughly. @_@



It actually part of the Fabula Nova Crystallis Mythos that Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy Type-0, and
Final Fantasy Versus XIII use as the basis of their story.

You can read it here:

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Fabula_Nova_Crystallis:_Final_Fantasy
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#9Remijia(Topic Creator)Posted 5/26/2013 5:41:15 PM
Ah, I see. Kind of disappointing that they don't explicitly state this stuff *in* the game. @_@
#10lightdragoon88Posted 5/26/2013 8:32:35 PM
Remijia posted...
Ah, I see. Kind of disappointing that they don't explicitly state this stuff *in* the game. @_@


Yeah...it was a thing that Japan got to see when they announced the 3 games the first time.


We here in the US got the shaft on it.
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