Sneaky Sony

#51b1gt0nePosted 12/1/2012 11:29:55 PM
RyuuHou25 posted...
Doesn't matter if it's on the bottom of your to do list or if you find it a pain, you agree to it when you sign up for it. Complaining about it after the fact, claiming it's evil, you "didn't know" and all those other excuses just shows your lack of.....ohhh, what was it I said before.....

RESPONSIBILITY

So either inform yourself like a sane, rational adult, or cry like a child and throw a hissy fit, but if you're going to do that, at least realize and own up to it for crying out loud.

You don't "pay" for trials, that's why they're free, that's also why they have auto renewal attached to them. Despite what MANY people think (which is a consequence of them refusing to take personal responsibility) it is not to scam anyone, but as a matter of convenience for said customer, and to improve a companys customer base.

Yeah, they usually do that in the hopes you'll forget and it will just renew on its own. So....again....PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, know what you're signing up for/into and make sure you DO NOT do anything you don't want happening!

How ******* hard is that?

Keep jumping through their hoops, I'll see you later.
#52jaekidd1012Posted 12/1/2012 11:53:42 PM
Tempest717 posted...
It seems like a few people didn't actually read TC's post. Or didn't get it. Either one works.


Pretty much.

I kinda get where TC is coming from. Sony could have simply included a retail three-month card in the box instead of three one-month cards. Sony did this for a reason but that doesn't necessarily make it right.
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#53RyuuHou25Posted 12/1/2012 11:54:03 PM
My god, that was the greatest rebuttal ever *sarcasm*

Have fun in life kid.
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#54RyuuHou25Posted 12/1/2012 11:57:34 PM
jaekidd1012 posted...
Tempest717 posted...
It seems like a few people didn't actually read TC's post. Or didn't get it. Either one works.


Pretty much.

I kinda get where TC is coming from. Sony could have simply included a retail three-month card in the box instead of three one-month cards. Sony did this for a reason but that doesn't necessarily make it right.


Retail cards are not released everywhere, that would be my guess. I've never seen them anywhere in Canada here, but of course the bundles and trials are available up here.

But business wise, makes more sense to do it that way, in their minds, trial potentially brings more customers into Plus, plus to them you are not actually paying for the Plus, you are trying it out, so it wouldn't make sense for them to give you a retail card.
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PSN ID: RyuuHou24
"I never said that....and even if I said it, I never said it" - Dr Peter Venkman RGB
#55b1gt0nePosted 12/2/2012 6:00:02 AM
RyuuHou25 posted...
jaekidd1012 posted...
Tempest717 posted...
It seems like a few people didn't actually read TC's post. Or didn't get it. Either one works.


Pretty much.

I kinda get where TC is coming from. Sony could have simply included a retail three-month card in the box instead of three one-month cards. Sony did this for a reason but that doesn't necessarily make it right.


Retail cards are not released everywhere, that would be my guess. I've never seen them anywhere in Canada here, but of course the bundles and trials are available up here.

But business wise, makes more sense to do it that way, in their minds, trial potentially brings more customers into Plus, plus to them you are not actually paying for the Plus, you are trying it out, so it wouldn't make sense for them to give you a retail card.


Like you've said in several of your god-like rebuttals, it benefits the business to use this practice, it has absolutely no benefit to the consumer. Saving me a phone call to resubscribe is a convenience, but saving me a phone call not to resubscribe is irresponsibility?? It's a sleazy and sneaky practice, and has cost many companies that use it, millions in lawsuits. I thought canadians were wiser,,,,,I was wrong:)
#56kingofall214Posted 12/2/2012 6:33:31 AM
I've had auto renew take my money when I forgot to cancel a couple of times. I just called customer service and they always said no problem, canceled my subscription and gave me my money back. maybe I just had good luck though.
#57RyuuHou25Posted 12/2/2012 9:37:33 AM
b1gt0ne posted...
RyuuHou25 posted...
jaekidd1012 posted...
Tempest717 posted...
It seems like a few people didn't actually read TC's post. Or didn't get it. Either one works.


Pretty much.

I kinda get where TC is coming from. Sony could have simply included a retail three-month card in the box instead of three one-month cards. Sony did this for a reason but that doesn't necessarily make it right.


Retail cards are not released everywhere, that would be my guess. I've never seen them anywhere in Canada here, but of course the bundles and trials are available up here.

But business wise, makes more sense to do it that way, in their minds, trial potentially brings more customers into Plus, plus to them you are not actually paying for the Plus, you are trying it out, so it wouldn't make sense for them to give you a retail card.


Like you've said in several of your god-like rebuttals, it benefits the business to use this practice, it has absolutely no benefit to the consumer. Saving me a phone call to resubscribe is a convenience, but saving me a phone call not to resubscribe is irresponsibility?? It's a sleazy and sneaky practice, and has cost many companies that use it, millions in lawsuits. I thought canadians were wiser,,,,,I was wrong:)


Yes, using logic must seem god like to most people these days >.<

"absolutely no benefit to the consumer" "saving me a phone call to resubscribe is a convenience"

Congrats on that immediate contradiction there and proving yourself wrong. Yes, I'm well aware you said that to prove a different point, but even so......also, the second part of that makes no sense, they're saving you a phone call not to resubscribe? And that's irresponsible? What? Word that better.

Millions in lawsuits from this practice, care to share some links/proof to back up that claim?
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#58b1gt0nePosted 12/2/2012 10:47:08 AM
RyuuHou25 posted...
b1gt0ne posted...
RyuuHou25 posted...
jaekidd1012 posted...
Tempest717 posted...
It seems like a few people didn't actually read TC's post. Or didn't get it. Either one works.


Pretty much.

I kinda get where TC is coming from. Sony could have simply included a retail three-month card in the box instead of three one-month cards. Sony did this for a reason but that doesn't necessarily make it right.


Retail cards are not released everywhere, that would be my guess. I've never seen them anywhere in Canada here, but of course the bundles and trials are available up here.

But business wise, makes more sense to do it that way, in their minds, trial potentially brings more customers into Plus, plus to them you are not actually paying for the Plus, you are trying it out, so it wouldn't make sense for them to give you a retail card.


Like you've said in several of your god-like rebuttals, it benefits the business to use this practice, it has absolutely no benefit to the consumer. Saving me a phone call to resubscribe is a convenience, but saving me a phone call not to resubscribe is irresponsibility?? It's a sleazy and sneaky practice, and has cost many companies that use it, millions in lawsuits. I thought canadians were wiser,,,,,I was wrong:)


Yes, using logic must seem god like to most people these days >.<

"absolutely no benefit to the consumer" "saving me a phone call to resubscribe is a convenience"

Congrats on that immediate contradiction there and proving yourself wrong. Yes, I'm well aware you said that to prove a different point, but even so......also, the second part of that makes no sense, they're saving you a phone call not to resubscribe? And that's irresponsible? What? Word that better.

Millions in lawsuits from this practice, care to share some links/proof to back up that claim?

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9153118/Symantec_hit_with_class_action_lawsuit_over_auto_renewals

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9174329/N.Y._man_sues_McAfee_over_antivirus_auto_renewal_fees

http://www.indystar.com/article/BG/20121009/BUSINESS/121009047/Angie-s-List-lawsuit-alleges-memberships-renewed-more-costly-bundled-rate

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/your-money/automatic-magazine-renewal-and-automated-voices.html

http://www.brokerblogger.com/brokerblogger/2007/01/autorenewal_com.html

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/927749-xbox-360?search=auto+renewal

http://www.kgglaw.com/Investor-Consumer-Bulletin/Synapse-Magazine-Subscription-Renewal-Litigation.shtml

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=best+buy+auto+renewal+lawsuit&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


The point was, calling to resubscribe is inconvenient, but calling to cancel auto renewal isn't inconvenient??



You can find tons more in complaints and class-action lawsuits over these auto-renewal policies, you should definitely read the one link from gamefaqs. Magazine distributors fined $8-9 million for auto renewing, Best Buy and it's banking partners are being sued for auto-renewing credit card protection plans without consent.

I find it sad that anyone can defend this type of business practice, but if it makes you feel like an adult and you're taking responsibility for something, GREAT!!
With that, have a good life managing your auto-renewal subscription(s) as only a proud responsible person could possibly do.
#59LeonSK357Posted 12/2/2012 1:10:12 PM
b1gt0ne posted...
I find it sad that anyone can defend this type of business practice, but if it makes you feel like an adult and you're taking responsibility for something, GREAT!!
With that, have a good life managing your auto-renewal subscription(s) as only a proud responsible person could possibly do.


I didn't intend on getting involved in this because your flawed logic (for a supposedly responsible adult with two kids) hurts my brain cells. Either way, here goes.

I'll keep it short and simple so as not to overload your adult brain and force you into a default (and mature) response of "have fun with life, kid".

You make it seem like the auto-renewal idea is bad. If a company goes out of its way to make it difficult for a customer to cancel a subscription (or they go one step further and ignore the customer's decision to cancel, only to keep charging them) then yes, I'm with you. THAT is wrong. However, for some unexplained reason, people like to *gasp* KEEP the subscriptions to services they enjoy! It would make sense for a company to make it convenient for their customers to continue their subscription, and if you're new and with a free trial, your billing information is already set so that, should you happen to find yourself enjoying the service, your mind is at ease and you can continue using it.

Now, if you're absolutely disgusted by said service, it will be on your mind (as most of life's frustrations tend to linger), and since it's on your mind, you won't forget to cancel, therefore not having to pay extra for something you don't like/want! Simple, isn't it?

Really, you seem like the kind of person who just wants to toss blame around. You probably think guns are the devil and pencils are to blame for a student's low grades. It totally has nothing to do with the person USING aforementioned tools, right?
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#60RyuuHou25Posted 12/3/2012 5:45:35 AM
Should point out some facts -

Antivirus programs TOS or EULA whatever, the fine print, always outlay what will happen if credit card info is provided. Most people do not bother to read, and then claim ignorance on facts only when it actually affects them, despite agreeing to these TOS or EULA.

But, fair enough, those ones did result in the companies being charged for it, however the courts also did not stop them from said practice, just required they notify people before charging them.

Angies List has been blatantly charging people more for some years now, I'll give you that, they are fairly shady and sneaky. However, they have a page where you can easily cancel your membership, so....online, by phone, mail, or even fax. Can't really say they make it hard.

Now, as for the magazine thing, it blatantly says they DO inform their customers, people just treat it as so called junk mail and throw it out, and then, again, claim ignorance. That's just people being incredibly stupid and naive.

Now, as for the blog thing, one part in particular I had to laugh at -

"I still contend that other much less reputable publications than WebmasterWorld.com and ConsumerReports.org are counting on people forgetting the renewal date, or not paying attention to the reminder e-mails, or not being organized enough to follow through on them, or not taking the time to read the "T.O.S." or "User Agreement" fine print, or not notifying all their subscribed publications of their newly changed e-mail address, or not making sure that important e-mails are not being caught in their e-mail spam filters, or even subscribers just putting off reading their e-mails while in a "vacation mentality" for two weeks or more."

That is a HELL of a lot of excuses coming from so called responsible, grown up adults for reasons why they get "suckered" into these auto renewal "scams" don't you think?

I'm not defending the practice genius. I'm pointing out the reasons why YOUR argument is flawed. I almost never sign up for anything auto renewing, and if for some reason I do (ie it's something I'm actually interested in) you can damn well bet I READ the TOS, make a note somewhere of the following - who it is, how to cancel if I don't want it, contact numbers, e-mail, etc etc and THEN I make a reminder to myself somewhere (phone, computer, sticky note on my TV if I really have to) and if I feel I do not like the service, guess what? I CANCEL it.

Now as the above poster said, you're simply shifting blame around from yourself to the "evil corporations" because you refuse to take any responsibility for yourself for something you deem "not important".....well it's certainly important enough once your money starts to get taken from you by something you CONSENTED TO but failed to put enough importance on to bother to read anything you were signing up for or agreeing to.

LACK OF RESPONSIBILITY.

Yeah, companies can be sneaky, evil, twisted, and can mess around with people. So why aren't you intelligent enough to protect yourself if you ever do sign up for anything? Nobody controls what you do but YOU, so why aren't you owning up to your own mistakes?
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PSN ID: RyuuHou24
"I never said that....and even if I said it, I never said it" - Dr Peter Venkman RGB