I actually remember when games were hard...

#21leopoldsharkPosted 11/10/2012 1:54:35 AM
Yeah, don't mistake fake difficulty for real difficulty. Something you have to do over and over again to memorize the layout of the map because 2d sidescrollers don't show you what you are up against is not true difficulty. Something can be difficult because figuring out what to do is challenging, or it can be difficult if even after figuring it out, executing it is difficult. You have to remember that old 2d sidescrolling platformers were originally designed to be difficult as artificial lengthening. There isn't much there, but you have to do it over and over again so you would feed more quarters into the arcade. That mentality goes on even when the games are moved to console.

3d games are much harder to control precisely than 2d games. That is why they needed to add more buttons to the controller, plus use a control stick to manipulate in more than 4 directions. To compensate, some things have to be automated, since there is only so many things a player can control at the same time with just their hands. Platforming in 3d games also tend to be more forgiving because of this.

In Assassin's Creed III, the platforming elements (free-running) are mainly automated and simple, but that is not supposed to be where the difficulty lies. The difficulty lies in observing your target, finding ways to not be detected while getting rid of your enemies and fulfilling your objective. I am not that far in AC3 but comparing it to Mario or Megaman is not completely fair.

Also, in AC3 story is much more in the forefront. The developers do not want the game to completely detract your ability to experience the story they made for you. A player might be compelled to find out what happens to Connor but they will not find out if they cannot get past a certain element of the game. They're very proud of their story and want as many people to experience it, even if those people are not as good at video games as others.
#22retep_onePosted 11/10/2012 2:08:56 AM
yeah i remember when games were actually hard and challenging. but i think what affected some game's difficulty is the online play. before it is just single or 2 players, hence they make it a little more difficult for longevity. now online is more relevant and vital for majority of games. single player is less challenging as you could find more difficulty battling other players online
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#23Arsene-LupinPosted 11/10/2012 2:10:57 AM
From: RoxasANobody | #057
Arsene-Lupin posted...
So you're whining because the tedium of having to reload after making stupid mistakes is no longer an issue? ...Right.


I never got that argument. This argument was brought up numerous times against Final Fantasy XIII. For those who haven't played XIII, you get a "Retry" option if you die in battle. Instead of starting off from your last save point, you are positioned a safe distance away from the battle you died in and you can change your paradigms, equipment, etc. If you decided to do that, you can engage the enemy once again.

Difficulty is subjective. For me, difficulty is about a challenge. Starting something from the very beginning is just tedious. Chopping down a 1:16:xx time to a 1:15:xx time in GT5/FM4 is difficult and challenging. Making me restart the whole level because I fell off a cliff is just tedious, especially since I'll just take the same path I just took.


But... that's exactly what I'm saying. If you're running and fall in AC3, you don't have to start over from the begining, you can keep going, and the full sync objectives typically involve things that heighten difficulty, like being undetected, getting X number of stealth kills, or completing an objective in X amount of time. That's the challenge right there. Sure, it's optional, but it's still there.

I'm not sure what you mean re:FFXIII. I would say the more appropriate analogy would be FF12, specifically the "player challenges" -- like soloing the game, only using default equipment, not using certain skills, etc.

And if pointing out that these things exist make me a "fanboy," so be it.

Personally, I think this is really the ideal way to handle challenge in a game. The difficulty is there for those who seek it, but it's not required, so there's no real risk of alienating more casual gamers as is the case with titles like Dark Souls.
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#24SmackpwnPosted 11/10/2012 2:22:10 AM
If you want a challenging game, you need to be playing indi games like faster than light or deadly 30, mainstream triple A titles are for casuals and scrubs to get their dellusioned gamer fix even though they are not true gamers
#25Solid_PWPosted 11/10/2012 3:13:44 AM
Smackpwn posted...
If you want a challenging game, you need to be playing indi games like faster than light or deadly 30, mainstream triple A titles are for casuals and scrubs to get their dellusioned gamer fix even though they are not true gamers


So going by your logic, gamers need to play challenging indie games for them to be regarded as 'true gamers' even though they have played 30 mainstream triple A titles ?
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#26ChocoboDreamsPosted 11/10/2012 4:21:56 AM
Smackpwn posted...
If you want a challenging game, you need to be playing indi games like faster than light or deadly 30, mainstream triple A titles are for casuals and scrubs to get their dellusioned gamer fix even though they are not true gamers


Okami is one of the best games to ever grace a gaming console, and it's hardly challenging in the slightest. Nor is it mainstream, in fact it's pretty obscure, despite it's glowing critical praise.
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#27MadigariPosted 11/10/2012 5:12:48 AM
Smackpwn posted...
If you want a challenging game, you need to be playing indi games like faster than light or deadly 30, mainstream triple A titles are for casuals and scrubs to get their dellusioned gamer fix even though they are not true gamers


Next tell us about true Scotsmen. I love a good fallacy.
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