Ideas for Future Assassins Games

#31ConallofUlster(Topic Creator)Posted 11/16/2012 1:51:11 PM
_Dura_ posted...
Also, people all over the board have been decrying 100% Synch requirements and talking about how they miss the open-ended assassinations of AC1. Which both fly in the face of your ideas.


If they're arbitrary and have no benefit aside from getting robes once you have completed all of them with nothing in the middle, then sure.

But make it so that the challenges are logical and actually give you something as your progress and I think that'd help the system a lot.
#32_Dura_Posted 11/16/2012 1:56:12 PM
ConallofUlster posted...

Then increase the challenge, don't take away player ability. If AC3 combat took one step forward it's that you can't just counter kill everything. But they took two steps back by letting you counter-tool everything instead. Your method is to move even further back, instead of refining the experience. And I just can't agree with that.


I would agree with you if you were the same character, such as Ezio from ACII to Brotherhood. But when you start as a new assassin there isn't exactly a reason for that to be the case.

The idea of actually having your character grow into an assassin was one of the best things about Assassin's Creed II and really one of the things that felt lacking in III as a result of them time skipping it.

I agree that part of the problem with the counter kill was the mechanic and III did make an improvement on that front, they didn't really ramp up difficulty by doing it.


You can have character growth without arbitrary leveling up. For one, the Assassin Order has changed, you don't go back to your Maestro for permission to use this and that. None of them have since Altair, so it wouldn't make sense story-wise.

You also have to consider the player. We're not new. We don't need climbing tutorials anymore. I'm not saying you need to give the player everything right away, but a leveling system is completely unnecessary.

As I said, character growth should be organic, something that flows naturally as you progress through the game, not "Poison X number of guards so you can get a poison to do it faster." Or, "Kill X number of targets with the gun so you get a longer range gun." Because it's not ONLY unnecessary, but it's restrictive and boring.
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#33_Dura_Posted 11/16/2012 1:57:26 PM
ConallofUlster posted...
_Dura_ posted...
Also, people all over the board have been decrying 100% Synch requirements and talking about how they miss the open-ended assassinations of AC1. Which both fly in the face of your ideas.


If they're arbitrary and have no benefit aside from getting robes once you have completed all of them with nothing in the middle, then sure.

But make it so that the challenges are logical and actually give you something as your progress and I think that'd help the system a lot.


That would make them even worse. Maybe we could make it a level based game while we're at it? What's the point of having an open world with lots of options if you want to dictate how the player should use them?
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PSN: Duragon_Mikado
kabuki....isnt that were you ...you know...on the girl? - CrusaderZeRo
#34LiquidAntagonisPosted 11/16/2012 1:59:23 PM
ConallofUlster posted...
The way I'm thinking about it, the combat will get easier as you get stronger.
As for Arkham City, I believe they went this route with the enemy types in this game, though being a fully trained assassin, they're still not much of a match.


The point of making revisions to the combat mechanics would be to make the combat more difficult.

Have you...played Arkham City? Have you played AC III? The combat in AC III is nothing like either Arkham game. If anything, it resembles AC Revelations the most, and that's not saying much because combat hasn't changed since AC1 so much as it has been added onto. The enemy archetypes have been implemented in the series since Brotherhood. They were easy to overcome then, and they're easy to overcome now.

You can actually be a blade in the crowd and avoid detection by getting close to crowds and blending with them.

Instead of [the capes, make experience control] how quickly your notoriety grows.

To avoid this being too difficult, notoriety should actually grow as a result of the assassination targets (as it did in ACI), especially after you don the robes.


Stealth isn't a centralized aspect of gameplay in this game. The stealth elements - the crowd, the hay bales, the benches, the merchant stands, the tall grass - are a there so the player can break detection once he's been detected. The point of stealth is to prevent detection, not remedy the situation once it's occurred.

The only stealth element in this game that serves to prevent detection would be the corner cover whistling that allows you to make a guard abandon his post to investigate the sound before you stab him in the jugular, and even that has its limitations; how can you expect to remain undetected in an environment that wasn't designed with stealth in mind? Even if you do manage to kill the guard, you're still risking detection by inviting him to your current hiding spot. If you somehow fail to kill him, then open conflict is engaged and your stealthy infiltration is replaced with combat.

The notoriety system is garbage; An infamous assassin wouldn't magically lose his infamy after bribing a few hearlds. Notoriety should be a constant, not an alterable variable aspect of gameplay. In fact it should be more of a literary device than anything else.

Things to do regarding stealth:

1.Change how notoriety works. When your current level of notoriety alters the behavior of guards, and when certain areas of the map automatically force you into a certain amount of notoriety, your ability to remain undetected is diminished because they'll actively be looking for you. Guards should only be alerted to your presence after you make the mistake of revealing yourself.

2. design the levels with stealth in mind; create more abilities that focus on stealth, like crouching, crawling, sneaking, using disguises, and using distractions. Couple the stealth with the combat so that after the first time you're detected, enemy aggression increases until you can't break away and you're forced to fight. This is how the combat and stealth will compliment one another.
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#35ConallofUlster(Topic Creator)Posted 11/16/2012 2:08:58 PM
You can have character growth without arbitrary leveling up. For one, the Assassin Order has changed, you don't go back to your Maestro for permission to use this and that. None of them have since Altair, so it wouldn't make sense story-wise.

Actually Ezio in ACII had a system where you bought skills from Mario, though this feature was often neglected because the game didn't really tell you about it.
Though if you were to loosen the definition of mentor, then you have Brotherhood as well with the items being purchased after completing the arbitrary shop quests.

I see my idea as giving a chance with organic growth that allows you to progress through the story or hang back and train up to get stronger. The point isn't to add a "level", but to give you means of getting skills for completing things that are otherwise unrewarded.

It seems that we're not progressing either way towards improving the opinion of the other so I suggest that we'll have to agree to disagree unless you'd rather just continue to play the ping-pong game to nowhere.
#36ConallofUlster(Topic Creator)Posted 11/16/2012 2:19:13 PM

Have you...played Arkham City? Have you played AC III? The combat in AC III is nothing like either Arkham game. If anything, it resembles AC Revelations the most, and that's not saying much because combat hasn't changed since AC1 so much as it has been added onto. The enemy archetypes have been implemented in the series since Brotherhood. They were easy to overcome then, and they're easy to overcome now.



I have. I understand that Arkham Asylum's fighting system was originally inspired by that in Assassin's Creed II, up until that point, Asylum was actually a rhythm game, much like DDR where you tap buttons to the pace of a song and your accuracy affects how Batman's fight goes.

Obviously the systems are different still, but inspired and clones aren't synonyms.

I've played and finished both games and actually just started Arkham City again after finding about the glide kick cam change easter egg.

You can actually be a blade in the crowd and avoid detection by getting close to crowds and blending with them.

Instead of [the capes, make experience control] how quickly your notoriety grows.

To avoid this being too difficult, notoriety should actually grow as a result of the assassination targets (as it did in ACI), especially after you don the robes.





The notoriety system is garbage; An infamous assassin wouldn't magically lose his infamy after bribing a few hearlds. Notoriety should be a constant, not an alterable variable aspect of gameplay. In fact it should be more of a literary device than anything else.


That's interesting. But I think that they're using notoriety more as "alertness", so whether the guards are more suspicious of individuals in their area. But I think the games tend to add more "restricted" areas and a faster detection as you progress anyways.


Things to do regarding stealth:

1.Change how notoriety works. When your current level of notoriety alters the behavior of guards, and when certain areas of the map automatically force you into a certain amount of notoriety, your ability to remain undetected is diminished because they'll actively be looking for you. Guards should only be alerted to your presence after you make the mistake of revealing yourself.


I agree, especially in areas that are restricted.


2. design the levels with stealth in mind; create more abilities that focus on stealth, like crouching, crawling, sneaking, using disguises, and using distractions. Couple the stealth with the combat so that after the first time you're detected, enemy aggression increases until you can't break away and you're forced to fight. This is how the combat and stealth will compliment one another.


Perhaps more so at the start of the game. As more and more names drop from your high profile target list, the stealth paths shouldn't be as easily laid out and if you want to go the stealth route, you should definitely have to work for it. But in the beginning of the game they should be able to help you understand how to utilize the environment to your benefit through scaffolded missions like you suggest.