I don't understand...Why don't I enjoy this one as much as the rest?

#21LightgamerPosted 4/18/2013 5:26:38 PM
Rob_Indahood posted...
dave_is_slick posted...
From: Hagiel | #006
Ezio had three games to develop

Let me stop you right here. Yes, he sure did, but they were expansions of a character that they had already developed.


No you don't have to stop me right there because there's more to it than that. Ezio had his entire life covered. Even in 2, it covered his life from his late teens to his 40s. Connor's biggest character coverage was during the war, and that's relatively small compared to Ezio's journey in 2, and a drop in the bucket in his 3 games and Embers. So you have more time to see him grow as a man, and 2 other games to feel even more attached to him.

Connor didn't get the chance to become that veteran Assassin and 2 other games, it cut off before he could really take his entire journey to heart.


And you wont see any more Connor because of this same reason.
---
Xbox Live: GodintheGalaxy, PSN: EuphoricJudas
#22HagielPosted 4/19/2013 2:13:55 AM
Rob_Indahood posted...
dave_is_slick posted...
From: Hagiel | #006
Ezio had three games to develop

Let me stop you right here. Yes, he sure did, but they were expansions of a character that they had already developed.


No you don't have to stop me right there because there's more to it than that. Ezio had his entire life covered. Even in 2, it covered his life from his late teens to his 40s. Connor's biggest character coverage was during the war, and that's relatively small compared to Ezio's journey in 2, and a drop in the bucket in his 3 games and Embers. So you have more time to see him grow as a man, and 2 other games to feel even more attached to him.

Connor didn't get the chance to become that veteran Assassin and 2 other games, it cut off before he could really take his entire journey to heart.


I think Dave was talking to me, but still good answer :-)

In my opinion Ezio had the most development in Brotherhood. It began in the DLC Bonfires of Vanity, yes, but most of it was in Brotherhood
---
It's so much easier to see the world in black and white. Gray? I don't know what to do with gray.
Garrus Vakarian
#23Pennywise380Posted 4/19/2013 8:25:26 AM
Hagiel posted...
In my opinion Ezio had the most development in Brotherhood. It began in the DLC Bonfires of Vanity, yes, but most of it was in Brotherhood


What? He didn't develop in Brotherhood at all. In AC2 he began as a brash, carefree playboy and finished a wizened veteran. In Brotherhood he begins as a wizened veteran and ends as a wizened veteran.

As for the events of that game, they're just a condensed and less intriguing version of AC2; another member of the Auditore family is killed, so Ezio murders his way through Templar ranks for a second time to exact vengeance on the murderer. Only this time, he forgets the lesson that he learned at the end of Bonfire of the Vanities and goes far out of his way to murder Cesare long after he ceases to be a threat.

The one point of character development you could argue took place in Brotherhood was his acceptance that he's simply a conduit for information to be relayed to Desmond, but that only happened in the Da Vinci Disappearance and wasn't fully fleshed out until the ending of Revelations.

He goes through far, far more development in AC2 and even in Revelations, in which he realises that he's played his part and done enough for one life, finally hangs up his hood and hidden blade and opts for a peaceful life with Sophia instead.
---
''Snake from Metal Gear 2 owns everybody. Because he used an owl. To make a guard think it was night time. In the middle of the day. That's just hardcore''
#24HagielPosted 4/19/2013 1:43:50 PM(edited)
Pennywise380 posted...
Hagiel posted...
In my opinion Ezio had the most development in Brotherhood. It began in the DLC Bonfires of Vanity, yes, but most of it was in Brotherhood


What? He didn't develop in Brotherhood at all. In AC2 he began as a brash, carefree playboy and finished a wizened veteran. In Brotherhood he begins as a wizened veteran and ends as a wizened veteran.

As for the events of that game, they're just a condensed and less intriguing version of AC2; another member of the Auditore family is killed, so Ezio murders his way through Templar ranks for a second time to exact vengeance on the murderer. Only this time, he forgets the lesson that he learned at the end of Bonfire of the Vanities and goes far out of his way to murder Cesare long after he ceases to be a threat.

The one point of character development you could argue took place in Brotherhood was his acceptance that he's simply a conduit for information to be relayed to Desmond, but that only happened in the Da Vinci Disappearance and wasn't fully fleshed out until the ending of Revelations.

He goes through far, far more development in AC2 and even in Revelations, in which he realises that he's played his part and done enough for one life, finally hangs up his hood and hidden blade and opts for a peaceful life with Sophia instead.


What I am trying to explain is that the development to a wise leader gets no sooner explained/shown than in brotherhood and is out of context in ACII. In Sequence 11 in ACII Ezio explains at the beginning that is has been 10 years now and he still doesn't understand what's going on. And only at the end of sequence 11 he learns about the brotherhood. So there is only one sequence left in that game without DLC, sequence 14.

Perhaps I should have mentioned that the first time I played ACII I didn't have the DLCs, so without Bonfires of Vanity in which his development STARTS, Ezio not killing Rodrigo in sequence 14 was out of character, because in sequence 11 he wanted to kill Rodrigo still for his father ("this is for my father you..." as he tries to stab Rodrigo). There was no development, it just happened in sequence 14 out of nowhere.

Yes, he stops at the end of ACII more often to listen and does not just storm forward, but that's it, there is no wise leader, he just learns of the brotherhood.

In Forli he just helps Catherina because they are friends, not much development there. And in Bonfires he just starts to set the needs of others before his goals.

In Brotherhood he values the idea and ideals of the brotherhood, and building it up and living by the creed is more important to him than in ACII. As you mentioned he accepts his role of being a messenger.

So yes, I think he has more development in Brotherhood.
---
It's so much easier to see the world in black and white. Gray? I don't know what to do with gray.
Garrus Vakarian
#25HagielPosted 4/19/2013 1:38:49 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#26LegendaryOozaruPosted 4/20/2013 11:03:11 PM
Rob_Indahood posted...
It basically ended up being a bar fight brawl ending in Haytham forgetting that Connor has hidden blades.


It also seems to have ended with you forgetting that Connor was badly injured by the explosions hitting the fort, which is why Haytham was able to overpower Connor.
#27strycubusPosted 4/22/2013 11:02:06 AM
After playing all of the games this is my humble take on why AC3 is the weakest of the bunch:

Connor of all three characters has easily the worst voice actor, and cringe worthy.

The brotherhood is completely nonexistent, and forgettable in AC3, name me 2 of the 6 assassin's you recruit. Even the random schmo's you recruit in AC:R were more memorable due to customization.

The reward system was completely out of whack, Everyone, EVERYONE loved the temple runs of the AC series, and AC3 had two decent temples runs, one being DLC.

The crafting/trading system is broken, and the UI is difficult to navigate. Worthless

The guilds have zero backstory and are completely thrown in for time filler. AC2 series at least had a motivation in narrative to complete these tasks.

The plot was also hard to engage in. Connor felt like a lone assassin despte being surronded by people. Everyone is pushed away by him, and he really doesn't engage with anyone. The collection of people that he does engage with (Homestead) I couldn't care less for. I want to see more of a realtionship with historical people like Ezio did.

I have high hopes for Black Flag, as already I like Grandpapy Kenway more than Connor, but I want to see som interaction and plot, not just cool gameplay.
---
You can't miss something you never had.
#28dave_is_slickPosted 4/22/2013 2:47:56 PM
From: Hagiel | #024
Perhaps I should have mentioned that the first time I played ACII I didn't have the DLCs, so without Bonfires of Vanity in which his development STARTS, Ezio not killing Rodrigo in sequence 14 was out of character, because in sequence 11 he wanted to kill Rodrigo still for his father ("this is for my father you..." as he tries to stab Rodrigo). There was no development, it just happened in sequence 14 out of nowhere.

Throughout the entire game Mario and the others were teaching him the many aspects of the brotherhood. Ezio was running on pure revenge. The first guy he kills, he's announcing his presence to the guards and the second guy he kills he's yelling at the dudes corpse and Mario has to tell him that's not how they roll. Hell, in one of the time skips, Ezio learns the entire history of the brotherhood and applys it. So taking the fact that he's learned to NOT kill for revenge, it did not come from nowhere that he spares him. He sets out for revenge but it takes him actually having his life in his hands for Ezio to know that killing him won't actually accomplish anything than personal satisfaction.
---
Sigs are overrated.
#29Pennywise380Posted 4/22/2013 3:34:12 PM
My problem with that twist was that killing him would have accomplished something. Ezio may not have derived any personal gain from killing Rodrigo, but he was not only the Grand Master of the Templar Order, he was also the Pope, making him essentially the most powerful man in Europe at the time.

If he'd killed Rodrigo, he may have prevented the attack on the Villa Auditore; Cesare owed his position as General of the Papal Army to his father's influence. Without that, he would have been replaced by someone less intent on diverting the campaign in Romagna to pursue personal revenge. Besides, he clearly didn't learn much of a lesson since following the Villa attack he goes straight back to murdering Templars.
---
''Snake from Metal Gear 2 owns everybody. Because he used an owl. To make a guard think it was night time. In the middle of the day. That's just hardcore''
#30SilbePosted 4/26/2013 6:26:54 PM
In general I'd say people like Ezio better because he is a charming ladies man, always a funny comment on his lips, smooth, gets a lot of girls, cool.ect.
But all in all I only started liking him in Revelations, when he was older and wiser but still had that sense of humor. That was actually the only Ezio I liked. Younger Ezio was too smooth, it was too much. Witty, strong Ladies-man cliché right in the face. Urgs.

On the other side I love Conner. Simply because he is a fully fledged human being. Boorish, angry, headstrong, afraid, sometimes childish or even stupid, stoic, naive, friendly and even polite. His prime objective isn't revenge, it's protecting his Clan. He cares less about what Templars or Assassins say, and more about what could happen if things DON'T change.

And he was right in the End considering the Ending Message was pretty much:
Idiots fighting for dominance and thus missing the opportunity to save mankind!

What I've found especially intriguing was the constant conflict between his duty as an assassin and his love for his home/clan. He struggles the whole game with how he should protect those people, knowing full well that their future is uncertain.

Honestly the only thing that bothered me was believing so blindly that Lee attacked Connors village and doing everything to get him out of the way for being a danger while he still helps Washington even after he had found out that Washington was the one responsible for the attack.

All in all the problem is, that Ezio has a HUGE Fanbase. And a lot of those Fans dislike Connor for being not Ezio, often the very opposite of Ezio, in fact.

I prefer a diverse cast of characters and types so I'm quite happy with all the characters. :P
---
-------------------
Steam/PSN:mezzokakerlake/Esca/Petz/Lv173/Warrior