What class is best at tearing up the enemy's defenses around the flag base?

#1lilchaoPosted 8/26/2012 5:57:37 AM
I usually play Pathfinder, but it happens often that the enemy is defending their flag so well that I can't get through on my own. What heavy class would be best at clearing up their flag stand so a different Pathfinder can capture?
---
PSN: FreakingWesley, XBL: FreakingWess, Steam: FreakingWesley
http://backloggery.com/freakingwesley
#2MegawizardPosted 8/26/2012 7:40:50 AM
In most cases, a Juggernaut with the MIRV would be optimal, barring that, the fusion mortar. Brute with the plasma cannon would be 2nd IMO. Generally as long as it has decent damage and a large splash it'll work cause ya need to be able to blast down forcefields and have something with enough splash to take out mines.
---
^( ' ' )^
#3dark lancerPosted 8/26/2012 10:31:27 AM
Yeah, juggernaut would be the best at it.

They don't have the targeting laser in Ascend, otherwise a juggernaut could bombard the enemy flag stand and exterior assets without actually having to aim for them himself, which is a huge pain to do. Also the juggernaut could stand with a hill between him and the targets and fire over the hill if someone painted a target for him.

The problem with shelling the enemy base as a juggernaut is that you need to figure out where to aim the mortar, and you have to do this with a combination of experience and lots of correcting shots. By the time you actually get your shots into the area you want to hit, someone will have come after you, and the juggernaut is terrible at outdoor dueling.
---
More information about licorice can be found on the Internet.
[Papal Crusaders]
#4Anubis_DracPosted 8/26/2012 10:37:46 AM
Depends on what kind of defenses you are talking about, and what kind of defenders you might be up against.

If you are just talking about static/deployed base defenses such as shields, turrets, and/or mines or a stationary defender such as a HoF or an exposed camping SEN, JUG is pretty much definitively the class you want to clear the way. I won't recommend a specific weapon for general use, because it really varies quite a bit.

If you are up against a more 'active' defense with a HoF and some heavy/medium support, if your dueling and rushing skills are up to task, a Brute is fine too (although personally I still prefer JUG unless the enemy defense has like 6 roaming heavies and I have little/no offensive support). Fractals are also...well...moderately effective in clearing a space, but in higher level play all that really does is slow down the game a bit.

If it's a fairly minimalist setup, Soldier/Raider and INF are decent choices depending on how you play. For example, if all the enemy really has is a HoF and a rage chaser around the flagstand, generally speaking they can often be dealt with by one good INF.

And beyond that, the main thing is of course knowing how your FCs are playing, or if you're the FC, communicating to your team what you need or what you plan on doing. For example, in my experience when you have a reaklly good PTH or two running flags, usually all you need to do is eliminate SENs and check potential chasers - they'll often take care of the minor things like clearing the flag for mines and going fast enough for turrets not to matter.
#5Hugh ManateePosted 8/29/2012 9:40:56 AM
...and the juggernaut is terrible at outdoor dueling.

... wrong... just wrong... They may be fat and slow, but once you get the X1 and throwing discs the only class that should give them trouble in a direct fight is a shield raider with a plasma canon and/or the NJ5. It's more likely you'll get bushwhacked by a infiltrator with close combat, sonic punch and stickies, but if you have the sound turned up you migt hear them coming. Thing is, even if they do come out to duel you, you can just keep shelling the base and ignore them, or go on a kamikaze charge, distracting them by throwing mortars till you either trip a mine or they kill you, then buy a grav cycle when you spawn and get back to a shelling spot in about 30 seconds or less.

I tend to prefer using the jug to blow static defenses, like turrets, radar, or dug in stationary HoFs, but to actually wipe out the scattered turrets and mines, the raider might be more precise. It's Arx and Dust buster have range comparable to the mortars, but are way more surgical, since the clip holds 3 you can use your first as a tracer. Fire one at the target at a guess, then put the other 2 dead on, they'll pop the turret. It can be fired scoped too. I never get why more people don't ARX snipe... The only thing it can't do is bust a high level turret, after about level 2 or 3 it takes most of your ammo to blow them up, but for the little turrets, deployables and mines, it's the best. The grenade launcher is decent too, it has more damage in it's clip but the range is a lot shorter.

A good sniper can't be dislodged by a jug unless it's trying to just sit in 1 spot, like on top of the raindance tower, or the platforms on crossfire, or if you sneak up on em with the fusor or X1. They'll stand on thew sides of hills where they can move and dodge. I find if you can get a emp xl on them a NJ5 raider can beat them, regardless if the primary weapon(though i tend to prefer the sticky launcher or plasma for this sort of thing), or just a straight up soldier with the SF and pistol. The thumper+gast works too, but for sen hunting I like the option of 1 shotting if I get a direct hit and the precision of the eagle to finish if I don't. TBH the TCN is a decent sniper hunter too, if there's nothing at your base, everything's working and powered, the burst power of the sawed off, or thumper, and the shorter then normal fuses on TCNGs and quickfuses make for a good short range brawler, if you get within thumper/nade range the SEN should die to any medium.
---
______________________OMNISLASHES next user!!!
\________________o_o__|====<(`..*)>
#6dark lancerPosted 8/29/2012 9:44:33 AM
The X1 LMG and Spinfusor disks are pay2win weapons.
---
More information about licorice can be found on the Internet.
[Papal Crusaders]
#7Anubis_DracPosted 8/29/2012 12:38:44 PM
dark lancer posted...
The X1 LMG and Spinfusor disks are pay2win weapons.


lolnope

If you're not just trolling:

*lrn2play
*lrn2actualmeaningofp2w

Besides, even without the X1 LMG and Hand-Thrown discs, the JUG is a solid dueling class outdoors. Mortar can be used close-mid range for setups/terrain traps and movement control/zoning if you pay attention to what the enemy is doing and time it right. Moreover, the MK-X is a sweet dueling weapon, and even the MKD is alright. Also, the default grenades are plenty fine, especially since they tend to be practically invisible- and they can also be quite useful for setups (always hilarious watching someone dodge a mortar shell only to go right into the 'nades).

Heh, the funny thing is I barely even use the LMG. I only have it on one loadout of the full six. Just not my playstyle.
#8mmSNAKEPosted 8/29/2012 1:00:25 PM
LMG and Discs are not OP but they are better in more skilled hands. Discs are more important than LMG. If any class gets caught close range with a JUG with discs, JUG should win.

For a new person to pick them up will mean nothing. Once you have some experience under your belt and you can track well with automatics, have decent prediction skills the LMG/Discs are much better than the regular nades and spinfusors. (only exception being indoor fighting)
---
Beatings will continue until morale improves!
#9Anubis_DracPosted 8/29/2012 1:49:46 PM(edited)
mmSNAKE posted...
LMG and Discs are not OP but they are better in more skilled hands. Discs are more important than LMG. If any class gets caught close range with a JUG with discs, JUG should win.

For a new person to pick them up will mean nothing. Once you have some experience under your belt and you can track well with automatics, have decent prediction skills the LMG/Discs are much better than the regular nades and spinfusors. (only exception being indoor fighting)


EDIT:
Oh, almost forgot. I pretty much agree with your statement word-for-word mmSNAKE, but personally I'd have to make a minor edit- "Once you have experience under your belt and you can track well with automatics, have decent prediction skills, [and don't have awful ping and average-to-below-average framerate]." On that note- there's another obvious reason I personally don't use the X1 that much despite some of its advantages.

Yeah, pretty much. I'd say discs are indeed blatantly better in terms of sheer utility (I admit, I currently have them on 5/6 loadouts), but as far as on-paper stats go, they aren't so OP that they render grenades worthless (if anything, it's more along the lines that a grenade-type weapon is a meh-tier choice for the JUG class in terms of design/combat concept).

Comparing the secondary weapons side by side, the X1 does come out slightly better than the other options for secondary by itself, but depending on the loadout and situation, I still prefer to stick to my spinfusor. I don't like the belt discs being my only option for low-damage impulse, and given my usual objectives in a game that factor is a lot more important to me than the benefits of the X1. Plus, since they buffed the projectile collision size for spinfusors, I've found direct-hits to be much more reliable - so much so that I don't even use the X1 for shrike-hunting anymore since my MKs are more than sufficient.

I used to enjoy my sFM/X1/Discs-Safety Third/Quick Draw loadout quite a bit, but I bumped it off the selection since it's just not my style, even though it was ridiculously good for killing things and quite an amusing C&H setup (which I haven't played for ages, maybe that's why I don't feel any real desire to use it). If they increase the loadout slots to 8 I might bring it back, otherwise I don't see myself using it again.

However, I will note that on most of my loadouts I avoid true super-close range dueling in which consistently-well-aimed autos have a clear conceptual advantage. I play a very heavy zoning game and even use impulse jumps/quick-turns mid-combat to get the distance and angle I need to quickly get an enemy out of the way or avoid soaking up unnecessary damage. Then again, I say one of the first points of dueling should be to play to your class strengths and not let your opponent dictate the terms.
#10mmSNAKEPosted 8/29/2012 11:37:38 PM
Blue plate with belt discs is one of the most satisfying kills for me, along with air mail proxy. I can't say no to that. Also I'm decent with auto weapons so LMG works well. Only time I'm SOL is when I'm out of discs and I get into a feud with a brute or raider indoors.
---
Beatings will continue until morale improves!