Grand Knights History
For Min/Maxers (Especially Avalon, I can't be the only one!) Training Info
Back To: Board List | Topic List | Topic Archived
Well, since there seems to be a great lack of detailed information about this game for non-Japanese speakers/readers, I felt like contributing information that I've learned so far in a more localized place (hopefully for Avalon people to get our territories back...). This is going to be mainly (maybe at first, we'll see) about the only real difficult/tedious thing I've noticed in the game: min/maxing the 60 day training. So I am going to focus mainly on this, and if I (or others) feel the urge/need I (or others) may post more information picked up of a less extreme matter. The length of this probably should have just been shoved into a FAQ but whatever. Also, I am basing most of my naming conventions based on either ValendiaKnight (aka Gyoru) translation patch v1.0a or google-translated wiki.mmo-station.com. -Squire Training - Basics: First off, lets see if I can list some information I've learned about training before I go into more specific training regiments. Disclaimer: This information is based on level 7/8/9 of training, as I did not bother to collect this information before this as it felt pointless to min/max at that stage of the game. So this information may still be somewhat applicable at all levels, it is meant for mainly post-storyline. First off, the training level is based on an non-consumable item given to you by the kingdom's leader, which gives you all your characters a base training level for all exercises of the item's number plus one. These items go up to six, giving you a maximum base training of level seven. The items are obtained from using a certain number of permits, the number which I unfortunately do not know. It takes two sets of training in a specific exercise for a character to go to the next level for that exercise, which has a maximum of level nine. Next, the training time in days depends on two factors. The number of people you are training at once and from what specific exercise you are choosing from. Note: It takes the longer of the two training times if you choose at least one of Group 2's exercises in a set of training. One person: All 3 days Two people: Group 1 – 3 days; Group 2 – 4 days Three people: All 4 days Four people: Group 1 – 4 days; Group 2 – 5 days And here are the group of skills: Group 1: Basic, Meditate, Defense, Evasion, Spar, Melee, Survival, M.Defense, Protect Group 2: Sprinting, Group, Combat, Dance, Agility The number of times you can train in a 60 day period is as follow: 3 days – 18 times, 4 days – 13 times, 5 days - 11 times. The stat gain from all of them total the same amount (yes, at level 7-9, the double circles net you the same extra stats as a single circle, effectively making Sprinting useless compared to Basic in every possible way at this point). Also, during the character creation, the personality gives the character two exercises in which he or she is proficient in, allowing for a slightly larger stat gain. For non-proficient personalities, Marvelous result: Level 7/8 – 2/2/2/1; Level 9 – 2/2/2/2 For non-proficient personalities, Success result: Level 7/8 – 2/2/1/1; Level 9 - 2/2/2/1 For proficient personalities, Marvelous result: Level 7/8 – 2/2/2/2; Level 9 – 3/2/2/2 For proficient personalities, Success result: Level 7/8 – 2/2/2/1; Level 9 – 2/2/2/2 Multiply the number by ten if a result is for HP. The numbers correspond to the stat in the order they are shown in the exercise description. The fourth stat is a random stat taken from the ones not listed on the exercise, minus Luck. You can only obtain Luck from training if the exercise specifically trains for it. (Post 1 of 5... good god) (Please wait til I get all five posts up together) --- The fuzziest frizzonn alive. Things changed and the world became flat. We all look at the world with shaded eyes. | |
Here is a list of specific exercises, the stats they give, and which permit they can be found: Basic – HP/Vit/Agi; All Permits Meditate – Wis/Lck/Int; All Permits Defense – Vit/Wis/Str; HP, Str, Vit, Basic Permits Evasion – Agi/Lck/HP; HP, Tec, Agi, Lck Permits Spar – Tec/Str/Wis; Str, Vit,Tec, Int, Basic Permits Melee – Str/Int/Tec; Str, Tec, Int Permits Survival – Vit/HP/Tec; HP, Vit, Tec, Lck Permits M.Defense – Wis/HP/Lck; HP, Int, Basic, Lck Permits Protect – Lck/Wis/Vit; Vit, Basic, Agi, Lck Permits Sprinting – HP/Agi/Vit; HP, Vit, Agility, Lck Group – Str/Int/Wis; HP, Str, Int, Agi Permits Combat – Int/Str/Lck; Str, Int, Basic, Lck Permits Dance – Tec/Agi/Str; Str, Tec, Basic, Agi Permits Agility – Agi/Tec/Int; Vit, Tec, Int, Agi Permits -Squire Training – The Regiment: Warning: This is extremely time consuming (and these posts are awfully long, eesh). Only bother reading or doing the following if you want to min/max your characters and have time to spend. Also, it assumes you are using a personality proficient with the exercise you are training. Math and Theory First off, some quick info and math. You can only get the bonus stats for obtaining all Marvelous cards with a four-person training and the bonus is +1 randomly to two stats you obtained from the training (this includes the random stat). Next, three day training length nets you a total of 18 training, with four day with 13, and five day with 11. The first four exercises net you eight total stat points each (Level 7 and 8), the rest nine stat points each (for the four-Marvelous bonus, make the numbers 10 and 11 respectively). This means the total stat point gained, if maximized, for three day training is 158 stat points, four day at 113, five day at 95, and five day with Marvelous bonus at 117. This shows that to maximize the stat gain, you have to choosing a training regiment that has a length of only three days. This means you would need to train with a one/two person party if choosing an exercise from Group 1, mentioned in the previous post, or with a one person party if choosing an exercise from Group 2. Note: Just in case it is not known, you can recruit two characters, finish training them, then recruit another two and train just those two with no penalties. Next, you have to choose the four stats you want to train in. I do not believe all combinations are possible, especially the ones that include Lck, so this part may be difficult or disappointing. I personally try to aim for three stats I really want and try to find a fourth that I find reasonable. Why four stats and not two or three? That is because the fourth stat can be obtained from the random stat you get from training (aside from Lck). However, since the stat is random, you will either need to reset the game before it saves or use an Hourglass to reset the roll. Also, since the fourth stat can be varied, you can also choose to train three stats heavily and between two and four stats to a lesser degree, however I cannot think of a situation where I would recommend this. (Post 2 of 5, trucking along) --- The fuzziest frizzonn alive. Things changed and the world became flat. We all look at the world with shaded eyes. | |
Example and Thought Process For example, I want to make a Knight with good offense and defense, so I want to train Str and Vit. Also, I want it to be fast, so I choose Agi as my third stat. So, my three chosen stats are Str/Vit/Agi, and I look through the list of possible exercises for either all three of my wanted stats or just two in any combination. The result gives me (no training has Str/Vit/Agi as an option, alas): Basic – HP/Vit/Agi Sprinting – HP/Agi/Vit Dance – Tec/Agi/Str First, I notice Basic is in Group 1 and is on all permits while Sprinting is in Group 2 (Longer training time in two person parties) and is on limited number of permits, so I remove that choice. That leaves me with Basic, which gives me HP/Vit/Agi rolling for Str, and Dance, Tec/Agi/Str rolling for Vit (also note, the first stat listed will gain the largest amount from training). I have not found Tec to be very useful for a non-Archer and really do not need it as my largest stat, so I go with Basic for HP/Str/Vit/Agi development. Next, I create a character with a personality that is proficient with Basic, does not hate alcohol, and roll stats until I am satisfied (I was able to obtain a 231/29/18/15/14/13/14/14 Knight). Now this guide branches off a bit, as Basic is from Group 1, it means I can train another character if it likes an exercise from Group 1 as well with a single Permit (if I was choosing an exercise from Group 2, I would be limited to a single person party). So I grab another Knight, which I intend to train HP/Vit/Int/Agi with Basic (it's an experiment, 194/25/21/16/12/12/18/16 if you're curious). Next, off to training. I choose a Permit that has my wanted exercise, Basic (which is actually all of them, but I avoided using Permits that have the Dance exercise, the reason later). I choose the exercise I want, skip the cut-scene, then for the most tedious and time consuming portion by far. Small aside, skip the following paragraph if you are able to hit Marvelous cards easily. A quick (hah!) tip for those who are having trouble consistently hitting Marvelous cards. In all the cases but about three or four, there is MXMM (X is either S or F) in the rotation. When you press circle, the card stops one or two cards later. I am unsure if it is one card and I have a slow reaction time or I have perfect reflexes and it is two, but I prefer to think it is the latter. So in most cases, you have to adjust you eye to see a short burst of orange then a slightly longer one afterward. Aim to hit circle when you see the first burst of orange and you will hit a Marvelous card in the second burst. I can list every example of possible card combinations and when to hit circle if anyone wants it (I rolled a lot of cards...). So, here we are at the card rolling screen. First, you want to try to hit a Marvelous card for the largest stat gains. Then comes the fun RNG portion of this whole deal. You want the fourth stat to be the one you want, in this case Str. However, each other stat not being trained minus Lck, in this case, Str/Tec/Int/Wis, is also a possible result. So after you finish rolling the cards (one or two depending), and you get a result you do not want (Tec/Int/Wis in this case), do not hit circle to proceed as it will save this result. (Post 3 of 5, halfway mark passed!) --- The fuzziest frizzonn alive. Things changed and the world became flat. We all look at the world with shaded eyes. | |
At this point, you can either hit square to use an Hourglass (pretty rare, unless you are an Avalonian as of this post 09/12/11, then just pretty expensive) to roll again, or close the game and restart with a fresh load as the game has not yet saved (I hit the Playstation button and close the game, however I have heard people say they need to turn off the PSP). Since Hourglasses are generally pretty rare, most people would close the game, fire it up again, and give it another go (I used three hourglasses then restarted if no result, spent over 15,000 on hourglasses for four characters). If you succeed, congratulations, hit circle and proceed. If your brave was not reset to 100, refill it, suspend to save, and repeat this process until you are unable to train. One or Two Party Training Teams - Now here is a question you may struggle with. If you have noticed, for some set of trainings, you can do two people at once for a lower Permit usage, but then there is the card roll for the random stat. However, you have to roll two correct random stats at once rather than a single, i.e. I have to have Knight A hit Str and Knight B hit Int from my example and any other combination will have to be a reroll, such as Knight A Int and Knight B Str. So here are some pro and cons for one versus two player party training: One: Pros – Easier to get the correct fourth stat (1/4 or 1/5 if you have Lck as a stat) Do not have to use a specific permit that has both the exercises needed for the two people, for example, Defense and Evasion exercises are only found together on one Permit, HP. Less time consuming Con – Uses more Permits Two: Pros – Uses less permits Cons – Lower probability for getting the correct stats (1/16 or 1/25 if you have Lck as a stat) More time consuming More frustrating If you have no access to a lot of hourglasses (pretty much everyone) I would heavily suggest training a single person at a time as farming 18 specific Permits (especially if you're training Basic) would most likely take less time than rolling for a 1/16 chance, rather than 1/4, 18 times. Assuming one minute for a total reset, one person parties will average about 72 minutes per person, totaling 144 minutes for two versus a two person party at 288 minutes. But if you have a lot of money to grab hourglasses when available, you may consider two person parties a try. (Post 4 of 5, goal in sight!) --- The fuzziest frizzonn alive. Things changed and the world became flat. We all look at the world with shaded eyes. | |
Results - Now for some result examples. The pictures are two knights and two wizards, all training Basic, for HP/Str/Vit/Agi, HP/Vit/Int/Agi, HP/Vit/Wis/Agi, and HP/Vit/Int/Agi respectively. Note: The two knights I screwed up twice, +4 Tec and +4 Str rather than Str and Int respectively. Also, the wizards are not proficient with Basic, as I could not stand a team of four of the same voice, especially one as horrible as the Lazy one. As a result, they obtained four less Wis/Int and 140health less than they could have. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/gkhscreen0002.png/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/829/gkhscreen0001.png/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/gkhscreen0006.png/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/29/gkhscreen0007.png/ And here is one of my earlier teams, four person training without all hitting Marvelous cards: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/gkhscreen0003.png/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/gkhscreen0004.png/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/gkhscreen0005.png/ Just a few random tidbits I feel like sharing (bragging? who knows). First, none of the screenshots have stat enhancing jewels equipped, so naked stats are being shown. If you compare my Str based knight to either of the ones in my earlier team, she has about equal stats in HP, Str, Vit, and Agi, never mind the 32 level difference. Also, that level 1 knight is using the highest offline buy-able weapon and cloak. Impressive what a min/max training scheme can do. Some Afterthoughts - One detail I did not mention specifically, but you may have noticed, that the first stat listed in each exercise grows about 39% than the other four stats. So it is possible to want a single stat, say Str, to be as large as possible, ignoring how your other stats suffer. That means you want an exercise that lists Str first, which are Melee with Str/Int/Tec and Group with Str/Int/Wis. While choosing one of these two options will net you 14 more stat points (my Str knight linked above would have 75 str rather than 61 at level 1!), Int and Wis are not very useful for Knights. Most of the time, prioritizing that single stat comes along with less beneficial stats, however, Archers reap quite nicely here. Notice the Dance exercise with Tec/Agi/Str, which I believe are the three most beneficial stats possible for an Archer in a nice package. Without worrying about the fourth stat, a 25 Tec, 20 Agi, 15 Str Archer could have level 1 stats of 75 56 51 respectively. One last bit of info that someone or another may want to know, stat growths for three character sub-types I've trained recently. The HP is too variable for me to list (it is about (10-12)+level/4 rounded down more-or-less depending on class). Stats are listed in Str/Vit/Tec/Int/Wis/Agi/Lck order. The sample size were four female knights, three female archers, and a single cleric. Values are rounded to the nearest 0.05 and this is ignoring the awkward stat gain leveling from 1 to 2, all characters leveling up to approximately 30. Female Knight: 0.60/0.80/0.90/1.00/1.00/0.95/0.90 – total 6.15 Female Archer: 0.85/0.90/0.70/0.95/0.85/0.75/0.95 – total 5.95 Cleric: 0.90/0.95/0.90/0.85/0.85/0.75/0.85 – total 6.05 (Post 5 of 5, finished!) --- The fuzziest frizzonn alive. Things changed and the world became flat. We all look at the world with shaded eyes. | |
Oh wow, thx for sharing I think I need to recreate my archer team.... But Im too lazy atm >.< --- Where is heaven? Above the sky, and below your feet. | |
What can I say... Great Guide! fellow avalons lets get our territories back! | |
Are the specified units train with the respective stats in training? Like Guardian's TEC+ VIT+? --- Mostly Played: Tales of the World: Radiant Mythology 3, The 3rd Birthday, God Eater Burst | |
Thank you very much for the write up. A general question: Does the game count the number of characters trained, or the number of permits used towards base training level? I am still in the process of jacking up my base level, which is only 3 at the moment. | |
ryokoalways posted... Thank you very much for the write up. A general question: Does the game count the number of characters trained, or the number of permits used towards base training level? I am still in the process of jacking up my base level, which is only 3 at the moment. I think its based on how many permit used, not the number of character --- Where is heaven? Above the sky, and below your feet. |
