Hiring and Using Caster Pawns FAQ

#31TheRicFactorPosted 9/26/2013 5:19:26 PMmessage detail
Sorry bro beans, but even with a min/max pawn and the Legion's might you still don't break the accepted over 3000 Magic Attack for BBI. In fact if my calculations are correct, you don't even break the standard 2000 Magic Attack. Therefore, you are advocating an extremely specific party setup as opposed to general Frequently Asked Questions that this particular sticky is trying to cover. The point of this FAQ was not to give every scenario possible for Sorcerers or Mages. It was to eliminate the common questions associated with hiring Sorcerer and Mage pawns. The items listed here have been asked frequently on this board either in thread or in newly posted topics.

There is a huge difference between "what inclinations should my Mage be if I want her to heal me less/more" and "should I run an entire party of min/max Mages all equipped with Legion's Might." Seriously, which question do you think gets asked more frequently?
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XBL / PSN: TheRicFactor
#32CatfishWigginsPosted 9/30/2013 9:57:46 PMmessage detail(edited)
Hey coolfire, sorry for riling up the trolls in your thread. I forgot how bad this board was.

For the sake of completeness, I would recommend adding Legion's Might to the equipment subsection of the mage guide. It appears that is not a popular choice, but this community is one of the most resistant to change and experimentation that I've ever seen.

To test the staff out, I recommend getting your Petrify, Sleep, Possession, Silence, and Skill Stifling to 100% resistance, then you can have one of the mages equipped with the status healing spell to take care of the other ailments. You could try for 100% complete immunity, but you'd have to give up some slots that could have +magic on them. I am currently re-leveling my party, (or I was before D3 came out) otherwise I could just let you rent my party. The reason I am re-leveling them was because I upgraded many of their skills to the second level version and bought some ill advised core skills, so another major issue would be skill selection.

Mages that are up front need quick casting spells, so the first levels of ingle or Levin are both great, and I also give them the second tier ice spell just so they can exploit the elemental weaknesses of the enemies. The ice spell is a little slow though, so you could also leave ice damage to your arisen or teach your mages ice boon, but ice boon is kind of annoying when your mage keeps recasting it each time they die. Of course you also don't want the charged up defensive orb core skill, or your pawns will fart around channeling it instead of attacking. You'll want the normal mage augments, both +20% and +10% magic and quicker casting. You can also get the "Retribution" passive on your arisen to squeeze an extra 20% (multiplicative) damage out of your pawns.

In this set up, your pawns will chain fireballs and Levin at all the enemies, get knocked over, then get back up while the enemies are running towards the other mages. The mages do okay damage against BBI ogres and Cyclopes and the big wolves and the minotaurs, but they do very little damage against Strigori and Living Armor or Daimon. Versus all these last three monsters, they will continue to draw the attention of the enemies away from you, so you can kill them with your arisen.

In a mixed party setting, the tank mage can still draw attention away from your rangers or sorcerers, but after they die the enemies will run after your dps pawns. They work better with sorcerers, because sorcerers draw almost no threat until their spell is actually cast. Fighters and Rangers would both but heads with the mage, but the mage will still be a constant stream of fire and lightning.

I have extensively used the build farming Daimon2 (and clearing the stuff before him for crystals) and for fun during the story missions, and it works great in both cases. The most annoying part is min/maxing them as a sorcerer and then switching them to a mage for renting them, and then switching profiles and doing it again, until the tedium overwhelms you. But I doubt "normal" players would level 3 accounts to 200 twice.

Edit: @ric: "bro beans"? Also, is the accepted 3000 magic specifically for damaging Daimon2? My highest mage was just under 2000, but I could have boosted it to almost 2100 by sacrificing some status resist. It goes up to 2200 when I tried Retribution, but it seems too situational for my tastes. The problem with strigori was that most spells missed them, and they have high fire and lightning resist. They can't hurt Daimon2 at all though, but the "top rated" ranger pawns I tried out did not deal significant damage to him to effect my killing speed. Maybe if you leveled your arisen up with low offensive stats then the dps pawns would be a bigger boon.
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Aught ought not have naught for recompense.
#33Ghost_of_KirinPosted 9/30/2013 11:53:53 PMmessage detail(edited)
Hahaha! I laugh at your feeble attempts on previously making a point that your party set up destroys everything quick and easy. While I'm out in the field gathering mushrooms and picking flowers. What happened to that remark? And yet, here you are, saying it's not effective against this or that, and you're wondering why nobody cares about Legion's Might? Come on, isn't it obvious? Or are you really that obtuse to not see it.

Get out of that hole, man. You're making yourself look bad. This board is 'bad', by your terms, because of passive aggressive trolls such as yourself who think highly of themselves but with little to show for! So to make this board a better place, why don't you remove yourself from here? Thus, making this a better place for us? :D

I've said it was useless and you've just outlined it for all of us to see, just as it is useless of you to try and get a rise out of us by insulting us as trolls when it was you who came in here with a condescending tone, passive aggressive nature, thinking you knew best - and yet all you have to show for is that weak sauce of yours? I am disappoint. I was really hoping to be proven wrong by a passive aggressive troll with little to show for. :D

What a joke, mate! What a joke! Funny though. I'll give you that.

Everything Derdak and I outlined, and everything in this guide, trumps your sorry method, man. You know, if you were smart you could have said to unequip that popsicle, Legion's Might, for a mightier weapon where enemies are tougher! No, but wait, for that to happen your entire method would collapse, and you'd have nothing to commit to or to shove down our throat. Stubbornness issues, uh? Get that checked, mate.

Now, kindly leave... troll! :D
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Justin Bailey
| Gamertag: Ghost of Kirin | MK Ur-Dragon run: http://youtu.be/jtkfQCqYzgM |
#34CatfishWigginsPosted 10/1/2013 4:13:12 AMmessage detail(edited)
Ugh...

Ghost_of_Kirin posted...
Hahaha! I laugh at your feeble attempts on previously making a point that your party set up destroys everything quick and easy.

This part of your post establishes a conclusion, that my party doesn't destroy everything quick and easy, based on 0 evidence. You then continue to use this conclusion without introducing any further evidence. I maintain that my party does kill everything quickly. I down Daimon2 before his first rift closes.

While I'm out in the field gathering mushrooms and picking flowers. What happened to that remark? And yet, here you are, saying it's not effective against this or that, and you're wondering why nobody cares about Legion's Might? Come on, isn't it obvious? Or are you really that obtuse to not see it.
Get out of that hole, man. You're making yourself look bad. This board is 'bad', by your terms, because of passive aggressive trolls such as yourself who think highly of themselves but with little to show for! So to make this board a better place, why don't you remove yourself from here? Thus, making this a better place for us? :D

This part of your post is just flaming without adding anything to the discussion. I bolded the part where you put words into my mouth.

I've said it was useless and you've just outlined it for all of us to see, just as it is useless of you to try and get a rise out of us by insulting us as trolls when it was you who came in here with a condescending tone, passive aggressive nature, thinking you knew best - and yet all you have to show for is that weak sauce of yours? I am disappoint. I was really hoping to be proven wrong by a passive aggressive troll with little to show for. :D

What a joke, mate! What a joke! Funny though. I'll give you that.

Everything Derdak and I outlined, and everything in this guide, trumps your sorry method, man. You know, if you were smart you could have said to unequip that popsicle, Legion's Might, for a mightier weapon where enemies are tougher! No, but wait, for that to happen your entire method would collapse, and you'd have nothing to commit to or to shove down our throat. Stubbornness issues, uh? Get that checked, mate.

Now, kindly leave... troll! :D

And the rest of what you said is also mindless flaming. I bolded the part where you suggested you have provided evidence in the past, although a review of your posts would reveal a lot of flaming with little content provided.

You did get me to respond again to an empty post, so I'll give you some credit, but if your intention is not just trolling I'd suggest you analyze your post and review how much of it contains content other than flaming.

Edit: For the benefit of my fellow pseudo intellectuals, my original claim that "I am surprised this is a sticky" is not based on the quality of the thread or my opinion of the author. It is based on the fact that this thread is organized as a FAQ/Guide and there is a separate section of this site that is dedicated exclusively to FAQs/Guides. I believe this type of information would be better posted there and I believe stickys are better for more temporary information, such as prerelease information that you know will become obsolete. My second claim, that "I'm surprised Legion's Might was left out," is not related to my first claim, but rather I believe a guide specifically on mages should include Legion's Might. Despite any ill perception of Legion's Might, it would be hard to argue it's effect is not unique, even among the more specialized DLC weapons.
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Aught ought not have naught for recompense.
#35TheRicFactorPosted 10/1/2013 5:37:03 AMmessage detail
Catfish, I really have to disagree with your assessment on what a sticky should be. I think stickies should be more true FAQs and the the FAQ section should stay what it typically is: a place for specific guides and walkthroughs. I think this topic is great for a sticky as it answers a lot of the frequently asked questions about Mage/Sorcerer pawns. And that's exactly what FAQ stands for: Frequently Asked Questions (contrary to what this site considers an FAQ).

If this was a comprehensive guide, I could maybe see your set up being in that, but honestly I don't think it would be in there either. I think that your Legion's Might full tank Mage party would need to be it's own separate guide. Your setup is way too specific. The chances of actually finding a min/max Mage equipped with the 100% resistances you recommend, no defensive orb skill, and virtually nothing past level 1 offensive skills would be almost impossible to find here in the GameFaqs community, let alone in the Rift. You would have to know GTs that actually had this particular set up, and that is most inappropriate for posting in a Sticky topic. You even said that you run your own pawns to get this full party set up; that in itself is a whole other topic that could be it's own separate guide.

Probably the biggest deterrent to your party build though is in your own words, "The mages do okay damage against BBI ogres and Cyclopes and the big wolves and the minotaurs, but they do very little damage against Strigori and Living Armor or Daimon. Versus all these last three monsters, they will continue to draw the attention of the enemies away from you, so you can kill them with your arisen." This is not much help against for someone who is running BBI at level 70 (as I doubt most of them ever want to hear the phrase "ok damage" or "very little damage" in the pawn they are hiring) for the first time or running post game at an even lower level. Most people that are playing the game for the first time, that would even have the type of questions answered in this FAQ, are usually not at level 200 or anywhere close. This Sticky, like I said before, is a true FAQ to answer the most common questions that come from the topics in how to choose the right caster pawn for a party, or to make your own caster pawn better. The reason that the Sanguine Stalk or Dominion Claw are even mentioned, is because of the all too common question of "What is the strongest weapon for Mage/Sorcerer." If this FAQ were designed to go into specifics, I could see the Legion's Might being mentioned, along with the Rusted, Golden, and Aneled weapons.

I think that you should write your own guide to what you recommend for your specific party build and go into the precise and clear detail you would need to get the most out of that party. If you ever do get all your Mages set up, send me a PM. I'll gladly switch to my GT that has my min/max Sorcerer on it and run the party. The setup won't be exactly the same, but it should be close enough. I've probably run with weirder parties, so it wouldn't be that foreign to me.
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XBL / PSN: TheRicFactor
#36mmasters36Posted 10/1/2013 6:22:36 AMmessage detail
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#37Ghost_of_KirinPosted 10/1/2013 8:52:54 AMmessage detail
Hahah! Playing the victim card now? :D

CatfishWiggins posted...
Hey coolfire, sorry for riling up the trolls in your thread. I forgot how bad this board was.

You accuse me of flaming? You have a Goldfish memory? With the above you give a half a**** attempt of an apology and then incite those that oppose your flawed opinion as trolls? As well as that you dismiss the entire board and its members here? I will NOT stand for that! I dish out the same dish that you served me, and you're crying fowl? Hahaha! Typical of a troll!

The mages do okay damage against BBI ogres and Cyclopes and the big wolves and the minotaurs, but they do very little damage against Strigori and Living Armor or Daimon.

This part of your post is just flaming without adding anything to the discussion. I bolded the part where you put words into my mouth.

You're saying I put words in your mouth when I referenced how your party is crap against this and that? See the above bolded text in the first quote, you wrote that you debate-happy-troll YOU! :D

They can't hurt Daimon2 at all though...

Duh! I've been saying that all along, how useless your party setup is! :D Really. It's a JOKE! :D

I maintain that my party does kill everything quickly. I down Daimon2 before his first rift closes.

So, now you change your tone? Hahaha! You are so full of it, man! It's killing me! :D

YOU CANNOT FOOL ME, matey! I KNOW how ineffective your setup is, I've already provided the evidence on what setup trumps yours, and if you're not smart enough to take advantage of that for your own growth? Then I feel sorry for you, mate. Really sorry for you.

You are a passive aggressive troll who's now crying fowl because you can't take what you dish out? You changed your tone at the drop of a pin because you're so committed to this Legion's Might BS that there is no way to back out from it now, so you commit to a half a**** cause. The arrogance, uh? :D

What a joke! Hahahah! I love giving it to the trolls, you don't see me act this way to the good folks here. :) Just trolls!
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Justin Bailey
| Gamertag: Ghost of Kirin | MK Ur-Dragon run: http://youtu.be/jtkfQCqYzgM |
#38CatfishWigginsPosted 10/1/2013 10:26:39 PMmessage detail
@Ric: I concede my opinion of FAQs being made stickies is unpopular. Debating this is rather moot, since this thread is already stickied. I will attempt to persuade you towards reconsidering the Legion's Might mage though. The thing is you don't look at this mage in the classic sense of "standing back and using big spells or healing" but instead as a tank. Instead of saving up and hitting the enemy with a maelstrom, the tank continuously pegs the enemies with fireballs and lightning, which keeps them off your arisen. They would be much worse on the DPS charts, but new players could also benefit from mages that applied constant pressure to the enemies and you didn't have to get out of formation to go rez them. Even a single legion mage would at least distract the biggest enemy in the room, allowing your arisen and other two pawns to focus on the weaker clutter. So when the new player first met the elder ogre, the legion mage would go play with it and allow the new player to experience the creature in safety.

The biggest boon of the legion mage is the infinite hands free tanking, not the level 1 ingles and levins. Even if you can't find perfect resists on a mage, I would suggest looking for good petrify, sleep, possession, silence, and skill stifling on any mage. There are many slots of clothing that have very little +magic available where you can grab 60% or so to two of these resists. I just recommend them specifically so your tank will be more reliable. The tank mage has the advantage over the other tanks in that he can more easily distract flying enemies, rez himself, and heal the rest of the party after the fight, if you're into healing spells.

Goodness, I don't even feel like I'm rambling but now I'm on my third paragraph already. Basically, the legion mage looks better if you look at the complete package rather than just the metaphorical DPS charts. Their weakness to strigori is common among many pawn types, and living armors are much easier when their backs are turned to you.

Also, I'm not saying that Legion's Might is "better" than dominion claw or rusty staff, but it is certainly viable, and many new players might not even know it is an available choice. A new player friendly guide could help some of them out by at least mentioning an alternative. Second also, I would recommend never getting the charged up basic attack or the defensive orb core skill on any mage or sorcerer. The charged up attack and orbs do good damage, but the pawns spend way too much time "channeling and then holding" their charges.

@mmasters: To clarify further, my original claim was not that this thread or the author were of low quality, but rather I dislike "durable" FAQs as stickies and that legion's might received an unwarranted "pass over." There is no need for you to defend coolfire, especially with such hostile personal attacks. If you must debate, it would make more sense to tell me stories about how you've earnestly tried Legion's Might and give specific scenarios in which it failed.

@ghost: It's getting kind of silly now. The flamer that burns twice as hot burns only half as long. Just in case you're still being serious (yeah, I'm pretty generous on trolls), my claim that legion mages cannot hurt daimon2 and my claim that my party can easily kill daimon2 do not conflict, because my party also contains an arisen.
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Aught ought not have naught for recompense.
#39Ghost_of_KirinPosted 10/1/2013 11:18:20 PMmessage detail(edited)
CatfishWiggins posted...
@Ric: I concede my opinion of FAQs being made stickies is unpopular. Debating this is rather moot, since this thread is already stickied.

No s*** Sherlock, then why did you come in here with that Passive Aggressive arrogance? You really are full of it, mate. :D

blah, blah, blah... the tank continuously pegs the enemies with fireballs and lightning, which keeps them off your arisen. They would be much worse on the DPS charts, but new players could also benefit from mages that applied constant pressure to the enemies and you didn't have to get out of formation to go rez them.

All Battle Mages can continuously peg those attacks, mate. With Tenacity, Spring Water and Sobering Wine to do away with debilitation, one does not have to worry about rescuing a fallen Pawn either. And with a Dominion Claw they have the added power of greater potential in damage, to boot!

Even a single legion mage would at least distract the biggest enemy in the room, allowing your arisen and other two pawns to focus on the weaker clutter. So when the new player first met the elder ogre, the legion mage would go play with it and allow the new player to experience the creature in safety.

Every Pawn has this ability to distract the enemy, mate, not just a Pawn with the Legion's Might popsicle! It's called INCLINATIONS! :D

Even if you can't find perfect resists on a mage, I would suggest looking for good petrify, sleep, possession, silence, and skill stifling on any mage. There are many slots of clothing that have very little +magic available where you can grab 60% or so to two of these resists. I just recommend them specifically so your tank will be more reliable. The tank mage has the advantage over the other tanks in that he can more easily distract flying enemies, rez himself, and heal the rest of the party after the fight, if you're into healing spells.

DD 101: Sobering Wine!!! Tenacity, Spring Water, and Dominion Claw, trumps all of your claims on the Legion Might being effective, buddy. :D

@ghost: It's getting kind of silly now. The flamer that burns twice as hot burns only half as long. Just in case you're still being serious (yeah, I'm pretty generous on trolls), my claim that legion mages cannot hurt daimon2 and my claim that my party can easily kill daimon2 do not conflict, because my party also contains an arisen.

So basically you're saying it is useless, and your Arisen does all the work - got it! Then don't go around so arrogantly saying your party destroys everything quickly and easily. You just proved my point all along that Legion's Might is useless.

If you're smart enough to pick up on where I can shoot you down with what you've claimed, so arrogantly too, that your party quickly destroys every enemy and boss, it is no different than me making a claim that with my party set up of Rusty Staves I can just as easily and quickly destroy everything too, because of my Arisen?

I highlighted the text in bold to help you better understand how much of a joke your set up is. :D

Get the picture? Obtuse one? :D

You're so full of it mate. And don't turn it around on me being the troll when it was you who came into this thread with a condescending tone, and then dismissing how bad the board is because you can't hold your fight when I give you a taste of your own medicine?

Get LOST! I've disproved all of your claims as a sham and purely of your own deluded opinion that it rocks. You're right though, in saying that it is getting silly; so how long are you gonna go on selling us the Legion's Might pitch? It's obviously inferior to what's been outlined in this guide and by Derdak and me.

:D
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Justin Bailey
| Gamertag: Ghost of Kirin | MK Ur-Dragon run: http://youtu.be/jtkfQCqYzgM |
#40KarathraxPosted 10/2/2013 12:42:06 AMmessage detail
CatfishWiggins posted...

Second also, I would recommend never getting the charged up basic attack... or the defensive orb core skill on any mage or sorcerer.


You're seriously suggesting no Focus Bolt??

Sorry, I just do not agree. My pawns have killed both the online and offline Ur and non-dragonkin enemies repeatedly by getting in a well-timed last shot with an elemental-buffed Focus Bolt, and over the last fourteen months, I've read of (and seen more than a few of them) countless other pawns do the very same thing. To suggest this skill is worthless is, frankly, laughable. Given the same equipment and augments, the jumping elemental-buffed focused bolt is just as powerful when performed by a pawn as an Arisen, and they have the benefit of never needing to learn the maneuver as they execute it perfectly every time.
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GT/PSN: Karathrax, Alt: Sekhmeti